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Installed new head gasket - Radiator fluid leaking

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HeyObie
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:07 pm    Post subject: Installed new head gasket - Radiator fluid leaking Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I had a valve job done on my 1950 8N. So I cleaned the head and the block with razor blades. Installed a new head gasket. Torqued to 70 lbs. Filled with radiator fluid and found a thimble full of radiator fluid on the floor the next day.

I can see that it is coming out of the head gasket on the left side of the engine.

Ran the engine, let it cool and torqued to 75 lbs with a result of a smaller amount of leakage. Quite a bit of white smoke at startup which disappears

What did I do wrong?
1 - didn't have the head milled
2 - was I supposed to add sealant to the gasket?

Thanks,

Obie
 
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souNdguy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Installed new head gasket - Radiator fluid leaking Reply to specific post Reply with quote

keep an eye on the oil and make sure it is not going into the oil. external leaks are annoying.. but not catastrophic... however.. leaks into the combustion chamber can be bad due to hydro lock.

warm and torque it again.. If I had a builders cube I'd toss it in.. otherwise.. if it still leaks after that 3rd torque and an hour of running.. then I'd pull her down again.

PS.. after it sets overnight.. pull the plugs and see which cyl is wet.. if it is smoking white.. it's in a cyl.. unless you also had the manifold off then i guess it maybee could be a leak there.. less likely though.... once you determine which jug is wet.. keep track.. if it don't clear as I mentioned.. when you pull it down again.. check out that area around that jug.. also around the external leak.

PS2 I've had ones that leak externally dry up after an hour of running and extra retorquing... if ya lucky...
 
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HeyObie
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Installed new head gasket - Radiator fluid leaking Reply to specific post Reply with quote

What is builders cube?

Should I worry about over torquing?
 


Last edited by HeyObie on Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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souNdguy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Installed new head gasket - Radiator fluid leaking Reply to specific post Reply with quote

overtorquing? not if you set your wrench correctly :)

a builders cube is essentially a small radiator stop leak cube made to bind up and plug a minor leak in a gasket . It's not ideal.. but it's a lil insurance.. and it's not a huge bottle of plugging goop like them bottles of bars leaks. the ones I've used were like 2 'sugar cube' sized blocks. I know lots of shops would always toss in a couple oin a new rebuild... etc.
 
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HeyObie
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Installed new head gasket - Radiator fluid leaking Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Is it OK to torque the engine hot? Or do you torque cold?
 
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souNdguy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Installed new head gasket - Radiator fluid leaking Reply to specific post Reply with quote

do both.. :)

I usually put it on.. .. obviously cold. torque it. run it 15m, torque it.. run it another 30m.. let it set and torque it.. then maybee 1 more time the next day after running it again.

mind you.. I'm doing the OHV jobs now.. not N's.. andd I'm pulling the VC off to check valves too..

retorquing don't hurt. might help. Smile that's a win-win
 
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BillM (OH)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Installed new head gasket - Radiator fluid leaking Reply to specific post Reply with quote

When I did mine last year, the head was over 15 thou out of
flat - in the area where the leak was - block was fine. Shaved
the head, relieved the head to keep pistons from hitting,
put'er back together and all is fine - torqued bolts to 70 and
again after warmed up. You can take up some problems with
the head, but not as far out of flat as mine was.
 
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L. B,
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Installed new head gasket - Radiator fluid leaking Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Obie, Permatex makes a head gasket spray, just a thought if ya have to pull it.
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:55 am    Post subject: Re: Installed new head gasket - Radiator fluid leaking Reply to specific post Reply with quote

HeyObie wrote:
(quoted from post at 21:07:46 01/17/13) I had a valve job done on my 1950 8N. So I cleaned the head and the block with razor blades. Installed a new head gasket. Torqued to 70 lbs. Filled with radiator fluid and found a thimble full of radiator fluid on the floor the next day.

I can see that it is coming out of the head gasket on the left side of the engine.

Ran the engine, let it cool and torqued to 75 lbs with a result of a smaller amount of leakage. Quite a bit of white smoke at startup which disappears

What did I do wrong?
1 - didn't have the head milled
2 - was I supposed to add sealant to the gasket?

Thanks,

Obie


My first guess would be you didn't get all of the old gasket material off.

TOH
 
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ASEguy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:58 am    Post subject: Re: Installed new head gasket - Radiator fluid leaking Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Whenever a head gasket is done, especially for a coolant leak, the head needs to be checked for out-of-flat with a straightedge and feeler gauges to ensure proper clamping force on the new gasket. Checking for cracks with either magnaflux or a dye penetrant test kit is a prudent move as well. Special attention needs to be paid to the failure area on both the head and the block because either one of which could be the cause. In automotive if no specs are available we use .004 overall, .002 for a 6 inch section or .001 per cylinder. Fiber gaskets are more forgiving for minor out of flat issues, but, if flat, the steel gaskets are a better choice. I would use a multi-layered steel head gasket in automotive any day over fiber. Hope this helps. Gerard
 
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ASEguy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:15 am    Post subject: Re: Installed new head gasket - Radiator fluid leaking Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I forgot to respond to your questions. You do not need to have the head machined if it's within out of flat specs. I do not use sealer on fiber gaskets unless some is needed around coolant holes that have been etched by acidic coolant. With steel gaskets it can be cheap insurance. So yes, I would.
 
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NOXJohn
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: Installed new head gasket - Radiator fluid leaking Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you decide to replace the head gasket I would recommend getting a Felpro gasket. I am sure others will work but Felpro is the best I have ever used and I have never had one leak. NAPA as well as other places sells Felpro. It is a soft gasket. I spray it with copper coat spray also sold by NAPA. I have had a TISCO full metal gasket leak and replace it with a Felpro and never had a second problem. RE-torque once or twice after running for a while.
 
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HeyObie
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Installed new head gasket - Radiator fluid leaking Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Well, I bit the bullet.

1- pulled the head
2- had .008 milled off ($50). Had some warped. It took 5-6 passes at .001 for the milling machine to to get it clean
2a - checked to make sure pistons did not hit head
3- Bought a Felpro gasket ($16) as recommended
4- Sprayed both sides of the gasket with copper gasket maker
5- cleaned block and head with acetone
6- Torqued to 75 lbs cold engine
7- ran it for 15 minutes
8- torqued to 75 lbs warm engine

It looks great so far.

Thank you all for the advice. I think this should be the recommended procedure for novices

Obie
 
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HeyObie
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Installed new head gasket - Radiator fluid leaking Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Soundguy,

Went to Napa and asked for builders cubes. No one knows what I was talking about. Couldn't find it on the internet. Only stuff at Napa was Bars.

Please educate me.

Thanks,

Obie
 
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Hobo,NC
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Installed new head gasket - Radiator fluid leaking Reply to specific post Reply with quote

HeyObie wrote:
(quoted from post at 02:01:31 01/19/13)
Well, I bit the bullet.

1- pulled the head
2- had .008 milled off ($50). Had some warped. It took 5-6 passes at .001 for the milling machine to to get it clean
2a - checked to make sure pistons did not hit head
3- Bought a Felpro gasket ($16) as recommended
4- Sprayed both sides of the gasket with copper gasket maker
5- cleaned block and head with acetone
6- Torqued to 75 lbs cold engine
7- ran it for 15 minutes
8- torqued to 75 lbs warm engine

It looks great so far.

Thank you all for the advice. I think this should be the recommended procedure for novices

Obie


Fel-Pros web site clearly states NO SEALER on the gasket... If it makes a difference I dunno,,, I just read it and play the game their way,,, I do know for a fact the blue on the blue gasket is a pre-coated sealer on the gasket...

I hope you do not fall for the anti-seze trick on the head bolts as posted a few days ago that someone dreamed up...
 
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