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What would you do? Opinions please

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Haley
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:11 am    Post subject: What would you do? Opinions please Reply to specific post Reply with quote

As some of you know my father lost out in farming and went belly up in 2011.He lost his land to the local bank which they sold and collected what he owed them.He also owed another bank(not local)a chunk of money on equipment and operating loans that he couldn't pay.One of the pieces of equipment on this loan is the 9700 Ford tractor that my grandaddy bought new in 1977.It is sitting in a friends field with a rod hanging out the block.The tractor is far from perfect but it was my grandaddys and I would like to try to buy it.Heres the problem,In 2011 my father called the bank to let them know he couldn't pay and they may want to come get the equipment to sell to pay part of the loan back because he was probably going to have to file bankrupcy.I thought they would come get the tractor and maybe I could buy it from them or from an auction they take it to but so far that hasn't happened.To this day he hasn't heard one word from this bank and the tractor sits in the field just wasting away while I wait on thier next move.I don't really want to be the first to contact them because I don't want to re stir the fire for my father(He has been through enough already)but I hate to see the tractor just waste away.How long do I wait.Recon they wrote it off?What would you do?
 
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Stephen Newell
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:26 am    Post subject: Re: What would you do? Opinions please Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If the tractor is visable from the road you might have someone else inquire about the tractor. It would probably go better to have a someone other than family take an interest in the tractor. If they get the idea it has sentimental value the price is likely to double.
 
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Too Far Gone
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:57 am    Post subject: Re: What would you do? Opinions please Reply to specific post Reply with quote

iD JUST DRAG IT ON A ROLLBACK SOME EARLY Sunday MORNIN,and put it somewhere far away and fix it.Chances are it'll be completely forgot about and it would cost them far more to haul it to the scrapper than they;d ever get for it.Do ya have any friends with winch trucks who could make them a scrap offer on it,then pay him to go get it and bring it to your house?
 
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MarkB_MI
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:09 am    Post subject: Re: What would you do? Opinions please Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would check to see if a lien has been recorded against the tractor. How this would have been done would depend on your state, but in many states the lender will file a UCC lien with the county clerk. You can find more information by googling "ucc lien" and the name of your state. You'll want to check for liens in the name of any family members who might have used the tractor for collateral, not just your father and grandfather.

What you don't want to do is to sink several grand into the tractor, just to have the bank come and get it once it's running. Banks "write off" bad debts, but they don't write off liens. If a lien is recorded against the tractor, you must get it released before you spend one nickel on the beast. It's quite possible that, knowing the condition of the tractor, the bank would be willing to release the lien for a nominal payment, but that's totally up to the bank.

Now, if there's no lien recorded against the tractor, then possession is 90 percent of the law. Maybe even 100 percent. With no recorded lien, the bank has no more right to the tractor than someone driving past it on the road.

You don't say if your father ever declared bankruptcy, or if he intends to do so. If he filed bankruptcy, then the tractor should have been part of his assets to be disposed of by the court. If he declares bankruptcy in the near future, giving the tractor to you (or the bank) could be considered concealing assets, and the court could come after the tractor.

IANAL, so this advice is of course worth exactly what you paid. Good luck.
 
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mhb@ufe
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:45 am    Post subject: Re: What would you do? Opinions please Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would get it moved to your property and then start checking on what you need to do to take ownership before you spend any money on repairs. If it is on your property you can at least prevent any further damage to the tractor. If you are unable to take ownership all you will be out is the towing charge.

Mark
 
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JD PHIL
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:16 am    Post subject: Re: What would you do? Opinions please Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ask your Father if he used this tractor to borrow money on the failed loans, due to the age of this tractor the bank may not figure it has any value now.
 
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Traditional Farmer
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:17 am    Post subject: Re: What would you do? Opinions please Reply to specific post Reply with quote

How good of a 'friend' is it that owns the land
the tractor sits on? If not so good he may try to claim it or if he's a very good friend he can help you get it from the bank.He can charge a reasonable amount of storage fee for every day its sat on his property probably $5/day anyway and then the bank will have to pay him off before its moved which after time the storage bill will be more than the tractor value.You and your friend may have to settle somewhere in between with the bank but I expexct you'd end up with the tractor.
 
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Dean Olson
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:20 am    Post subject: Re: What would you do? Opinions please Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The banks likely has no interest in it. They have so many other issues than a 1977 tractor running or not.

The advice to check for a lien is a good one. If no lien just claim it.

If it ever comes up submit a bill for storage that must be pd before you release it. Storage would include routine maint and repair bills as you don't allow non running junk in your yard.

I'm basing this opinion on abandoned boats and rv's left in my storage lot. Some had bank liens that were released to me in lieu of storage charges. Some banks pd the storage fee and came and got the equipment. Some I never heard from and just kept or sold the trailer. Storage fee's still accruing of course.
 
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David G
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:27 am    Post subject: Re: What would you do? Opinions please Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I believe it is all based on what the bankruptcy court decides.
 
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JD Seller
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: What would you do? Opinions please Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Your father needs to file a chapter 7 bankruptcy. IF he does not and just lets the old non paid loans stay out there they can come back in the years to come and make him pay them. The bank more than likely has a second mortgage on all of his property. Most banks have a uniform lean on all equipment and real property.

Like some other have stated. Get the tractor on your property. On the so called friends it can be pickup at anytime without any warning. At least if it is on yours they have to give you notice. Now that notice can be a truck with a sheriff deputy to pick it up. So you need to be able to move fast if that happens.

You would need to know what the original loan papers stated the banks held as collateral. Also if your Dad later signed any changes to the original papers.

I then would go to that bank if they seem to have a lien on the tractor. Have an appraised value on the tractor in its current condition. I would pay a reputable local dealer to write one up for you. I would also take some pictures with you. When they see that it is non running they should jump at a chance to get a reasonable salvage out of it without any recovery cost. Now do not get stupid and offer them a super low amount. Like $200 dollars or some thing. That could mess the deal up. They then could round it all of and sell it in anyway they want.

BE straight and honest and they should be relatively easy to work with. Try to get cute and they can bury you with much better lawyers that are used to collection these kind of debts.

Some of the subjections on here have been laughable. PLAY IT STRAIGHT and things usually work better.
 
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js305
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:11 am    Post subject: Re: What would you do? Opinions please Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I had a neighbor who was notorious for taking out loans on equipment that didn't work, or was incomplete, etc. After about twenty years of this he finally defaulted on a bunch of notes at one bank. I remember talking to one nice young man who, after looking at the collateral, just shook his head and left, never to be seen again.

He was looking for a hay baler and a couple of tractors, had a list of serial numbers. I helped him move some pieces of scrap out of the way and we found the numbers on some frames in the pile. He took some pictures and said he had better things to do. The pile of scrap is still there after another twenty years.
 
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rdandersom
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: What would you do? Opinions please Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'd move it quietly and put somewhere where it won't be noticed right away.possession is 9/10 of the law.
 
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formerly ny bill
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: What would you do? Opinions please Reply to specific post Reply with quote

was the 9700 listed on the equipment that was collateral? has the bank already taken some of the eqpt that was mortgaged?
i guess i would contact the bank that has the lien and explain the situation. its unlikely that a 9700 with a hole in the block would fetch anything more than x$$/ton, family or not. (might depend on how much the events have upset the bank's case manager.) if it costs a little more than scrap price, so be it. i would think the bank has many more important (to them) things to collect on.
the last thing i would do is to haul it off in the dead of night. i'm sure you don't need the obvious problems doing that could bring.
i bought a farm that the bank had repossessed. the bank took all the machinery they felt had any value and told what was left was mine.
 
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LAA
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: What would you do? Opinions please Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I thought you were on here a week or two ago questioning other peoples morals because they tried to make an honest dollar and now your advising someone to steal a tractor and to have his father file chapter 7 to ensure he relieves himself of all responsibility regarding debts he incurrred in good faith, unbelievable.
 
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rrlund
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: What would you do? Opinions please Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'd start with what MarkB said. Back in the 80s when everything was falling apart everywhere the jockeys wouldn't touch this stuff til they went to the court house to see if there was a lien on things.
 
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