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Should it have been built?

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NY 986
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:48 am    Post subject: Should it have been built? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The recent thread about the beautifully restored 2520 got me thinking. Why did Deere choose not to offer a row crop in the 60 and 70 PTO hp class when they went to the 30 series in 1973? The drive line could have been pretty much 2520 and 3020 components with the 2630 engine taking the place of the original 3020 motor. The tractors would have the 30 series styling and features therefore have the possibility of being equipped with SGB's. IH did quite a bit of business with the 544 and 666 and Oliver did quite a bit with the 1655. Using the 20 series design would have meant no huge development costs. The big limitation in my mind would have been availability of factory production time as the 1970's were a boom time for the Waterloo Works. An updated 2520 with SGB would have stormed the market with the only glaring shortcoming being no MFWD.
 
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rockyridgefarm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Should it have been built? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I don't know how much of a success it would have been. Deere thought the 420 was "too powerful" and so continued the 40 as the 320. It didn't sell well. Similar circumstance with the L, The H, the 4000, and frankly, the 2520 (25,000 versus 270,000 4020s, Adding the 2510 in, you only get 40,000 total for the 2510/2520).

I'm sure Deere thought that the row crop utilities would fill that particular niche... Whether or not you think they were right is another discussion.
 
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Bob Bancroft
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: Should it have been built? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Either they could see the future, or they were making it.
I recently saved my fathers original 2510, so it has sentimental value. But it's too small to even pull a modern wagon around with, so I really need to turn it into something bigger.
The 4030 just wasn't that much bigger, would be nearly as handy, yet there were never very many around here. But everybody had a 4230!
 
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NY 986
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: Should it have been built? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have no problem with the 2030 and 2630 tractors as such. They did offer features such as hi-lo and the direction reverser which would have required substantial redesign if incorporated into the Waterloo chassis. My thought is they could have increased market share substantially as the upgraded 20 series would have been the only tractor on the the market in the 60 to 70 hp range with an optional full power shift and ergonomically advanced cab for the time.
 
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NY 986
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: Should it have been built? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Most likely Deere saw no future in the smaller row crops but other manufacturers sold row crops in the size I am talking about. Certainly they are small today but thinking back to the early 1970's the perception may have been different for the farmer. A small dairy farmer back then would have greatly appreciated such a tractor on days like we have had recently equipped with a SGB for chores such as spreading manure. I think Deere could have sold quite a few here in the Northeast and upper Mid-West. No doubt the primary tractor on a lot of farms at the intro of the 30 series was 100 plus hp but still a lot of guys did not like running the big horse on chores that could be done on a smaller tractor. At the same time guys certainly were not going to freeze their tails off out of principle, either.
 
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tim s
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Should it have been built? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have disliked the 2020/2030 style tractors from the beginning,,we a bunch of them at the dealership I worked at,,I have seen "all" the bad things, some you would never dream of....I have a 2030 in here now with hydraulic issues,,I can sort them out fairly fast anymore..
 
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NY 986
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: Should it have been built? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

With the 60 C project done maybe you would not mind building a concept tractor? I forgot to mention my funds for such a project are limited. Maybe before I get too old.
 
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ET
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: Should it have been built? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Through the 70's and 80's and behond Deere has made more money on it's industrial line and lawn and garden tractors than the ag stuff. In the last few years with crops being worth something, the ag line I'm sure is turning more profit.
 
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wilamayb
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Should it have been built? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well... They sort of did offer them. The 2630/2640 could have been optioned with tall rear tires to increase height.
 
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tomstractorsandtoys1
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Should it have been built? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

My dad bought and sold used tactors and equipment and in our area(small and city farmers)it was much easier to sell a 2020 than a 2510,but if I have to use it or work on it the 2510 is 10 times the tractor(except for the hyd pump issues some had).Funny thing dad's 2510 had the little hyd. pump and it would outlift either of my 3020's.We used 46A laders on all three.
 
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leon
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Should it have been built? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It's fun to dream about what could have been done, but staying in the farm machinery business for 177 years requires more than market share and sales volume. A company must make profit or go out of business.
 
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Jethro Lilley
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Should it have been built? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

John Deere's line-up in the late 60's was meant to keep interest up in their tractors until the Gen II was announced in late '72. They were simply "keeping up with the Jonse's" aka IHC, AC, White and Case. They swapped engines, rear ends, added turbos, all of which could be done cheaply without major cash outlays in engineering, while producing "new" tractors to stay competitive with the other colors. IH came out with a 1066? Slap a turbo on a 4020 and Poof! 4320. 1486? Poof! 4620. Then the Gen II came and blew all the competition away. By then, the market for 60/70 hp tractors was waning and there were a lot of good used ones out there. Oil prices shot up in '73 and farming quickly had to become more fuel efficient, meaning all of a sudden everyone is going to 6,8 and 12 row stuff, abandoning 4rows. We traded our 4000 for a 4430 in '73 and 4020 for another one in '75. Then the 2010 for a 2640 in '76. Still have the 2510/47 loader combo and it still pulls 4-14's when asked. Cabs? in my area they were considered frivolous until Gen II. Some mounted aftermarket ones on their New Gen models. We didn't even have a cab combine until 1967, when the guys from Cogsdale Implement came to the farm and put one on the 45.
 
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Bob Harvey
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Should it have been built? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm POSITIVE all you guys are correct. Nothing better than 'hindsight',
 
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Bob Harvey
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Should it have been built? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

P.S. 'Hindsight' is best used on a warm, sunny beach with bikinis on !
 
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ss55
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Should it have been built? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

In 1973 Deere could sell every Gen 2 Waterloo tractor (4430 etc.) they could get move out the factory door. There was a waiting list for those tractors and they were selling for close to list price. Farming was profitable, farms were getting bigger and farmers were trading in nearly new tractors of any brand to get a bigger tractor with a quiet comfortable cab.

JI Case introduced the first really good cab tractors in 1970 (1070 etc) and the rest of the industry was scrambling to match their cabs. Deere got their Gen 2's to market 1 to 2 years before IH (1974 86 series) and Deere made money hand over fist before the competion caught up and then the farm economy collapsed around 1980.

If the market for tractors would have been slower then a smaller Gen 2 rowcrop tractor might have made sense. With the limited production capacity at Waterloo should Deere have turned away highly profitable orders for 4430's and 4630's to build smaller less profitable tractors?
 
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