Yesterday's Tractor Co.
Shop Now View Cart
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 9N,2N,8N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Traditional YT Forum ViewClassic View   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile    Log inLog in 

Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket

Goto page 1, 2  Next

 
Post new topic    
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Tom Bond
Long Time User


Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 680
Location: Illinois

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:00 pm    Post subject: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

With the weather being so cold outside, should there be any consideration about remounting the head and torqueing it down with the parts so cold? I normally only turn on the heat in the garage when I'm out there so the block and head are really cold. Would it have any adverse affects on it after I get it together and start it up? All the parts are cleaned and just waiting to pick up the gasket set and thermostat at NAPA when they arrive. Only thing left before assembly is chase all the bolt hole threads to make sure they're clean.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
souNdguy
Tractor Guru


Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Posts: 58260


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

our hands are gonna worry more about the cold than the head and deck will.

slap it on. I can't say that I've ever paid attention to temps other than when painting when doing wrench turning.

just rememebr after torquing, that you need to fill rad and cooling system, then run it till warmed then retorque.. and would be a good time to double check valve settings.

me? on a issue witha head gasket? it's fill with clean water, warm up and test it like that till I was sure I had no leaks into crankcase. water in oil is bad.. coolant in oil will wipe out bearings..

if it is freezing in your area.. remamber to drain block and rad of the water, or add coolant after you test it, and then let it circulate to make sure you don't have a pocket of cold unmixed water trapped in a lower rad or block.

( IE i always test a engine assy with pure water not coolant .. just in case). DO rememebr to add coolant / or drain it if freezing though...
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Tom Bond
Long Time User


Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 680
Location: Illinois

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Excellent point souNdguy. Thank You! I'm hoping no damage was done to bearings. Motor ran no more than 10 mins at 1000 RPMs before I caught the coolant in oil. Oil pressure was still 35 psi when at idle and no unusual noises. If no leaks, I figure I'll drain water and refill with coolant, fresh oil and filter, run it a couple days and then another oil and filter change depending on what oil condition looks like.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
andyin ct
Guest






Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:28 am    Post subject: Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Did you carefully clean the block and head surfaces? I use a razor blade and scrape the surfaces. If they are not completely clean you will have problems.
 
Back to top
Will Gumbert
Regular


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 363
Location: Garrett County, MD

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I haven't read all of the posts about the head gasket change you're working on so forgive me if this has already been discussed. At the risk of being insulting (which I definitely don't want to be) I was just wondering if you have a shop manual to refer to during re-assembly? Of course there is a correct bolt tightening sequence and torque, and other things like putting the push rods back in the original locations, etc. Just checking... Wink -Will
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Tom Bond
Long Time User


Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 680
Location: Illinois

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Absolutely NOT insulting at all. I can't tell how much you've all helped with this change. All the little tricks and tips come from your experiences. Yes, I have the shop manual with all the specs and I'll follow them to the "T" when reassembling. Felpro gasket set came with push rod cover gasket also so I'm going to pull that cover tonight when I do my final cleaning and thread chasing before assembly. Won't hurt and I can see whats up inside there. Gasket set came with instructions that said, "Install head gasket in direction of markings, otherwise install gasket." So, only markings on my gasket, just some lines. Which side goes to block?
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Will Gumbert
Regular


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 363
Location: Garrett County, MD

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I think if you lay the head gasket down on the deck surface on the block, and looking at the openings in the casting, it will only go on one way. Did you decide to use some copper coat on the gasket? I'm not recommending it, just curious. You seem like a very methodical and meticulous guy with your tractor work. That's good and the knowledgeable people here will give you sound advice as they have for me. I try, but a few times I have said the wrong thing and they always set me straight! (good thing!) -Will:
 
Back to top
View user's profile
john in la
Tractor Guru


Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 10176
Location: Bedico, La.

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Is that even the correct gasket?????????????????








But anyway that gasket will only go on one way. If it made a differance there would be FRONT stamped on the gasket.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Tom Bond
Long Time User


Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 680
Location: Illinois

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

John, you called that one! Looks like the set I got from NAPA might be for another series even though it's listed for the 801, 172 gasser like mine. I might have an issue returning it as all Felpro products are marked non returnable if opened. But I think I have a legitimate beef if they're description is wrong. Steiner shows one with the appropriate water jacket port in the gasket. I'll have to order that set I guess. I also noticed my head is a remanufactured one. Part #310100. Doesn't look like an issue though. Does the distributor have to come out to remove the push rod cover? I tried to remove cover to clean it up under there and no luck but didn't want to force things this late in the game. If I have to pull it, is there any seal or "O" rings I need to get while I'm ordering the new head gasket set? Thanks Again!
 
Back to top
View user's profile
ASEguy
Tractor Expert


Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 3018


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:51 am    Post subject: Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The only time I am concerned about the cold is when I'm building an engine and the parts aren't all the same temperature. Checking the fit of pistons/block requires they be at the same temperature.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Hobo,NC
Tractor Guru


Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 16793
Location: Sanford,NC

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:34 am    Post subject: Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

[quote="John in La"](quoted from post at 04:12:58 01/26/13) Is that even the correct gasket?????????????????

That's a good catch Exclamation ,,, I have both the 7/16 and 1/2" head bolt styles rite in front of me ( Victor Reintz) Both have the rectangle hole....

3152 for 55 to 57 7/16" head bolts

5795 for 58 to 64 1/2" bolt holes

The 5795 has a steal ring around the rectangle port the other does not...
The firing ring is different on both I have never till now noticed the difference... I was under the impression the head bolt size was the only difference...

This is why I always check the old again the new
Wink Tom what is the fel-pro #
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Tom Bond
Long Time User


Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 680
Location: Illinois

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The Fel-pro # 7761-B1. It's out of their head gasket kit # HS7761B2.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
john in la
Tractor Guru


Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 10176
Location: Bedico, La.

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:50 am    Post subject: Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

OK let me think out loud here for a second and see if we can figure this out.

I went to the Fel Pro site and found they gave you what felpro has listed as the correct gasket 7761-B-1. You got set HS-7761-B-2. The picture shows the gasket you have and you can see the number stamped on your gasket picture.

So now we have to wonder is that a felpro mistake or do they know something we are over looking. If it is a mistake I wonder how many have used this gasket in the past and are now posting here about over heating problems.

So just to get a better idea of the problem I looked at the gasket for the 134 motor 7632-B



and it looks more like what you need so at least felpro got it right. To bad the bore is differant and I do not know the details of that gasket or I MIGHT suggest using that gasket.
On the other hand if you look on this site or even the main Tisco parts site you will see that the 1/2 bolt gasket for the 134 and 172 is the same gasket. The gasket for the 7/16 is listed as a differant gasket for the 134 and 172 but that could be because Tisco sells a metal clad gasket for the 134 and a non-metallic gasket for the 172.
I wonder if contacting the felpro customer service and technical inquiries line at, 1-800-325-8886 would produce a answer to this problem.

Before I took anything else apart I would decide what path I was going to take. Most tractor sites sell a head gasket replacement set that only has the head gasket; valve cover; and manifold gasket. The next step up is a complete gasket set at more than twice the money. What you have is a head rebuild set. It is going to have some extra gaskets in it like the side cover. So if you go with another set you may not get a side cover gasket. But anyway that cover is just stuck on. They leak easy cause the cover gets bent so many gob it on with gasket sealer.

I do not know what path I would take. I would be very tempted to talk to felpro customer service and see if they would trade me the gasket for a 134 and try it.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Will Gumbert
Regular


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 363
Location: Garrett County, MD

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Since the FelPro photos show a port opening for the 134 gasket and not for the 172 gasket, is there any chance this is actually a 134 motor? Tom, what casting # is on the right side of the engine block?

Also, take a close look at the shape of the combustion chamber in the head and compare it to the old and new gasket. The new gasket appears to be made for a larger chamber with a different shape. -Will
 


Last edited by Will Gumbert on Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:00 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
JMOR
Tractor Guru


Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 21386


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: Just a Thought...861 Head Gasket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Also, I have a very cloudy recollection of a change in coolant flow in this series of engines, somewhere along the way & blocking those ports may have been the way it was done. Nine different head gaskets & some head numbers in this thread:
http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ford&th=486779
 


Last edited by JMOR on Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:31 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Yesterday's Tractors Forum Index -> Ford All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  

TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
Fast Shipping!  Most of our stocked parts ship within 24 hours (M-Th). Expedited shipping available, just call! Most prices for parts and manuals are below our competitors. Compare our super low shipping rates! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor. We are a company you can trust and have generous return policies. Shop Online Today or call our friendly sales staff toll free (800) 853-2651. [ About Us ]

YT Home  |  Forums

Modern View Forum powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters