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Wiring a 305 tbi to run?

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Lanse
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:40 am    Post subject: Wiring a 305 tbi to run? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Goodmorning everyone!!

So, after a little thinking and a lot of internet surfing, Im strongly considering keeping the existing TBI on that 305 V8 in the tractor project...

Next question, is how to wire it in?

I know this tractor isnt going to have any electrical requirements that even resemble that of the truck it came out of... No windshield wipers, air conditioning, etc...

Pretty much just a few lights... Two front... Two rear... Two turn signals...

And I'd really like to have an oil pressure and temperature gauge setup as well... Someone said something about using simple mechanical gauges, sounds great to me...

This thing basically just needs to start and run, with it's stock TBI system...

I'm not really sure where to even start here, are there any charts, or anything along those lines for a build like this? Any ideas/thoughts/input? Anything is appreciated...

Thanks guys... Have an awesome weekend! Smile
 
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John730D
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: Wiring a 305 tbi to run? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I don't have the answer for you Lanse, but I think you will have to have a computer to make a TBI work. Might check out some hod rod sites, or even Summitt Racing.
 
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Buzzman72
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:00 am    Post subject: Re: Wiring a 305 tbi to run? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Lanse, of course you realize that you're going to have to run the ECM for everything to operate. Now, I know a LITTLE here and a LITTLE there...like, the TPS has to have a reference voltage of 5 volts...

Your main voltage HAS to be 12.6 to 14 volts for everything to function; once the system goes below 10 volts, funky and not-so-funny things begin to happen. So make sure your battery, cables, grounds, and alternator are in AAA+++ condition to begin with...'cause this ain't gonna be like dealing with a 6V system with a generator and a magneto, that'll continue to run with a wimpy electrical system once you get it started.

There's a chart of the pin-outs for some of the common ECM's GM used, in the link below. Should be somewhat helpful...I hope. I know some of the "aftermarket" TBI systems use the GM #1227727 ECM, but I don't know if perhaps it's not as common now as it used to be.
ECM pin outs

 
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LilFarmer
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: Wiring a 305 tbi to run? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi Lanse,

If you haven't destroyed them already, keep all of the wiring harness looms from the truck. ALL OF THEM, including the engine wiring harness and the one that runs back to the fuel tank. Also the one across the dash that hooks to the computer. This will give you all the wiring and connectors you need to hook to the various sensors and controls.

You will need to have an electric fuel pump capable of 9 to 13 lbs of pressure. You should run an O2 sensor, but isn't absolutely required. Computer will go into default mode without it and engine will just use more fuel.
 
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glennster
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:36 am    Post subject: Re: Wiring a 305 tbi to run? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Lanse, one of my techs at the shop built a custom jeep cj with a tbi small block chevy. I beleive he isnrunning a programmable aftermarket module. I will ask him tomorrow and post back.
 
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Buzzman72
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Wiring a 305 tbi to run? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

This link may be MORE helpful...
GM ECM cross references and schematics

 
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Husker44A
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Wiring a 305 tbi to run? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That's going to be a pain it rear. I would suggest you get rid of that TBI and go with a simple carb. A lot easier to deal with. As other have stated you MUST use the ECM, all sensors and probably the GM instrument cluster for the electronics to function properly. Carburated GMs will run with two wires. One HOT wire to starter and one HOT to the distributor. Keyed or push button for the starter solinoide. Why make it any harder then what it actually is? Other then having fuel injection.
 
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buickanddeere
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: Wiring a 305 tbi to run? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Lilfarmer has the better answer. Why not have a nifty and crisp running engine instead of a Ludit machine.
 
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Jim in MN
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: Wiring a 305 tbi to run? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

A friend of mine who builds hot rods swears by Painless Wiring and EZ2Wire. Both have websites. Good luck!
 
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Inno
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Wiring a 305 tbi to run? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would retain the TBI for sure, might be a pain at first to get it all set up but your performance and reliability would be much better with it than without. Besides, building your own tractor tells me that you like a challenge so go for it, it definitely can be done!
 
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Buzzman72
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Wiring a 305 tbi to run? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Name a new car or truck sold in the US built in the last 20 years that came with a carburetor installed from the factory.

Didn't think you could.

Lanse is UNDER 20 years old...so there have been NO carbureted new cars or trucks in his lifetime. Sure, carbs ARE simpler...but not nearly as trouble-free to run as EFI, whether port or throttle body injected. Sure the SETUP's a bit more complicated; but with EFI, it's all about understanding the technology. And I've generally found that those who fear the technology usually don't understand it.
 
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GordoSD
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Wiring a 305 tbi to run? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Dump the 305, get a 350 mouse with a carb, or even a 327/283 and build it. It's time you took a break from welding and learned some engine building skills.
Just apply the same mindset and learning skills you learned in welding.
My Grandpa watched and talked, and helped as little as possible, while I pulled the flathead out of my 40 Ford and rebuilt in his toolshed on the farm, with the car in front of the shed. (refridgerator boxes are indispensable)I was 14.
And he made me pay for a lost 5/8 combination and a 9/16 and 5/8 1/2 drive sockets.
 
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Owen Aaland
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Wiring a 305 tbi to run? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You really don't need much to make the run engine with the ECM. You will need a throttle position sensor, map sensor, engine temp sensor, and O2 sensor. The engine speed will come from the distributor. The main output control is pulsing the injectors. Timing will be controlled after the engine is running above 600 RPM. Until then the timing is done only by the distributor. The O2 sensor will only control fuel trim for better economy after the ECM goes into closed loop operation.

A few more things, such as an intake air temp sensor, may be needed depending on the ECM. You need to have enough of the required inputs to allow the ECM to enter closed loop.
 


Last edited by Owen Aaland on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Inno
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Wiring a 305 tbi to run? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

GordoSD wrote:
(quoted from post at 23:16:37 01/27/13) Dump the 305, get a 350 mouse with a carb, or even a 327/283 and build it. It's time you took a break from welding and learned some engine building skills.


If he were building a classic car or truck I'd say that's the way to go but for his homemade tractor I think the TBI 305 would be a great engine.
 
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David G
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: Wiring a 305 tbi to run? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Look up megasquirt, it is a barebones ECM that you can put custom settings into. The factory sensors will wire right up.

I am putting one on my MH44.
 
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