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Water in oil pan


 
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Matt E.
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Location: Springfield, MO

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:49 am    Post subject: Water in oil pan Reply to specific post Reply with quote

We drug home a 1950 H a couple of weeks ago. Been sitting outside for 6-7 years. It was stuck but it had a good muffler/rain cap on it so we had high hopes.

Well, not so lucky. Not the worst shape but not good either. One piston is stuck, got the other three out pretty easily. Letting it soak and see what happens before increasing the blow force with a BFH to get it loose. The cylinder doesn't look too bad but it was the lowest setting piston, the others were at the top or down just a little. The wrist pins on three of the four are stuck also. I don't think the motor has been run much or had a recent overhall. But that's not the real question.

Where did I get a ton of water in the pan from? Or I should say I think it came from the radiator, can't see any in it from the top. Couldn't get the plug out of the bottom to drain it and didn't pull off the lower hose yet. If the block is cracked, where should I look? Typical location prone to cracking?

The head gasket didn't look to be the problem. I couldn't see any obvious cracks in the head but it needs to be cleaned up as well to get a good close look.

My dilemma is this: if we get the piston out, the cylinders cleaned up and everything broke loose or usable components to make it run - are we shooting ourselves in the foot by putting it back together to find out there is a crack in the block somewhere we can't see?

I purchased a running motor that smokes a little and got it pretty cheap I thought ($175). My thought is to just swap motors and go from there instead of messing with the first motor when we have it pretty much tore down already and ready to remove. Then we would know about the clutch also when it is split.

What would you do? In a perfect world we'd have unlimited funds to just rebuild it completely but not the case. It would have the easy life after getting it running.
 
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gene bender
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in oil pan Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Something is wrong as two pistons should be the same height and the other two should also be the same height if three are near the top the fourth one should also be the same. You say three are close to the top and the fourth is at the bottom something is bad somewhere. On that engine two will be the same and the other two will be the same height cant have three close to the top and one at the bottom.
 
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Matt E.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in oil pan Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sorry Gene, I typed incorrectly. #1 and #4 were at the top of the stroke. #2 (which is still stuck) and #3 were down equally. I went back and looked at photos. My niece's husband popped out #3 before I got there and I helped get #1 and #4 out.
 
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pete 23
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in oil pan Reply to specific post Reply with quote

First thing you need to determine is if the radiator and block have anti-freeze in them. That could give you some clues. Anti-freeze in radiator and clear water inside engine would tell you water came from atmosphere.
 
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rhtx55
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in oil pan Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The only way to determine if the block or head are cracked is to strip them down, have it " tanked" to remove the rust & carbon, have them both magnfluxed & pressure tested. You will usually find minor cracks in both, only the machine shop can help you determine if they need to be repaired, or will be fine as is.
If your pockets aren't very deep, I would try new sleeves and pistons, put them in & pressure test the coolant system with the pan, manifold, and valve cover off, place a piece of clean cardboard underneath and see what you have the next morning. If no leaks after 8 -12 hours of being under pressure, you should be good to go.
The water was probably built up condensation from sitting outside those years, they will build up condesation even sitting in an enclosed shed.
Strictly a guess......

How much water was present in the oil pan when you removed it ?
Was the radiator half full or empty?
How much is in the rear end & tranny?
 
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Matt E.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in oil pan Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'd say there was too much water in the pan to be condensation. water was above the petcock. Oil that looked like peanut butter was above that but not all the way to the pistons. That might have helped keep the wrist pins from rusting.

The water in the pan maybe had a slight green color but I couldn't say that it was for sure antifreeze. The radiator, I couldln't see any water or antifreeze above the core. I didn't have time to take off the lower hose to see what was in the radiator and what color. The drain plug in the bottom wouldn't come out. Didn't want to twist it off.

The tractor is not at my house, out at my neice's husband's shop 40 miles away. Didn't have enough time to get everything looked at like I would have liked to last night when I dropped the motor off.

My inclination is to swap motors with the donor. There was too much water in the pan and it had to come from somewhere. Either the head or the block is cracked. Guess I answered my own question. At least we can get it running and go from there. Who knows what may be wrong with the other half. Rolling Eyes

Thanks for the thoughts!
 
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rhtx55
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in oil pan Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sounds like a good plan, at least you will have the original engine handy if you ever decide to tear it down to see what you have. Run one, rebuild the other as time & money allows. You have to admit, this "hobby" never gets boring.
 
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Matt E.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: Water in oil pan Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Nope, not boring at all! Slow progress but these old girls aren't going anywhere. I need to give the B a little more attention also. Just have to mount a battery and find a set of lights then I think we are close to ripping her back apart to paint. I'll redo the wiring after the paint. I figure if I get one thing accomplished each month, I'm doing ok. Well, maybe one every three months but one a month is the goal.
 


Last edited by Matt E. on Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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