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Generator Polarize


 
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Don Mountain
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:49 am    Post subject: Generator Polarize Reply to specific post Reply with quote

My 54 Farmall Super C electrical system has been in bad shape for years and hasn"t charged the battery. Its all original with the 6 volt battery and generator and 4 terminal voltage regulator. Mice and rats have eaten the wiring off everything. I have been running it by crank starting it since it has a magneto. I just finished rewiring all of it with the correct size wires and terminals, and the lights all work and amp meter now shows discharge when the lights are turned on (it didn"t before). My question is (I haven"t started the engine yet) how do I polarize the generator again? I have done it before but somehow my wife has hidden all my tractor books since she rearraged the house. Do I momentarily jump a wire from the BAT terminal on the voltage regulator to the A terminal on the generator? I now have proper battery voltage on the BAT terminal which I didn"t before the rewire. Its a positive ground system as original.
 
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glennster
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: Generator Polarize Reply to specific post Reply with quote

here is a link to our very own john t's super duper charging trouble shootin guide for the genny system.
poke here

 
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gene bender
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: Generator Polarize Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Correct Bat term on the reg to the arm on the gen.
 
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Don Mountain
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: Generator Polarize Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Is the "arm" the "A" terminal on the generator?
 
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teddy52food
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:48 am    Post subject: Re: Generator Polarize Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes. F is the field. After polarizing, if it doesn't charge, ground the field to by-pass the regulator. Regulator has to have a good ground too.
 
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rustred
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: Generator Polarize Reply to specific post Reply with quote

just to add, that it is normal for the amp meter to show discharge when light are turned on without engine running or charging system working.
 
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Farmallhal
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Location: Rolla, Missouri

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Generator Polarize Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Don, Bob M who posts on here frequently provided me the directions for polarizing my battery on 6 volt positive ground systems.
Per Bob M - "Polarize the generator after all connections have been made (including the battery), but before starting the engine. Simply jumper the GEN and BAT terminals at the regulator. You need only touch for an instant (you may see a small spark) and polarization is complete."
I made my jumper wire from a 5" piece of insulated 14 gauge house wire and bared each end about a half inch to bare copper to touch the two terminals as noted above. I think this is all you need to get it working if your wiring is installed correctly and you generator and requlator are in working order, Hal.
 
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Don Mountain
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: Generator Polarize Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for all the help so far. As per the instruction section and the directions so far, I got the spark when jumping a wire from the BAT terminal to the GEN terminal on the voltage regulator. But to no avail. I still get no charge on the ammeter when I started the engine, and ran it up to speed. Checking the voltage across the BAT terminal and ground also showed no change in voltage of about 6.5 volts from the battery, no matter what the engine speed was. So now I guess I have to figure out if the generator or voltage regulator is bad. I am at step 5.a) Voltage Regulator System: in the instructions. Where might I find a new voltage regulator or generator if thats what I need?
 
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Don Mountain
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Generator Polarize Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well, I ran the test at 5.a)Voltage Regulator System, and still no charge. So I went on to Step 6. leaving the generator field grounded and I jumped a wire from the BAT terminal on the voltage regulator to the GEN or A terminal on the generator. And the ammeter gets pegged at the top of the charge side. So, it looks like maybe the voltage regulator is bad. Thank God it may be the cheap fix compared to buying a new generator. I think they sell these voltage regulators at the local Orscheln store or Tractor Supply store.
 
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John T
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Generator Polarize Reply to specific post Reply with quote

While its indeed a correct answer to momentarily flash jump a wire between BAT over to ARM/GEN on a Voltage Regulator, some 4 terminal VR' have the GEN/ARM underneath where its hard to get to. If so jump from BAT on the VR down to the gennys ARM post to Polarize.... Are you all configurted at the original POS grnd??

Clik below for troubleshooting

John T
John T Troubleshooting

 
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Farmallhal
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Location: Rolla, Missouri

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Generator Polarize Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Don, Don't know where you live but generators are very easily rebuilt by people in the business. We have a great shop in town and the generator/alternator/starter guy has some physical disabilities but can certainly set on a stoll and make them better then new. Anything you buy new is most likely Made in China stuff and in no way comparable to a rebuilt Delco-Remy which will cost half or less then the cost of a new one. Good luck but most likely a new regulator will be made elsewhere as well, Hal.
 
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John T
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Generator Polarize Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If the VR's internal cutout relay is failing to ever close and by pass jumping across it (BAT to GEN/ARM) makes her charge yeppers sounds like a bad VR HOWEVER that assumes shes all wired right and all polarities are correct (genny and ammeter and battery etc). While what you say (that pegged ammeter dont sound exactly right) and my test tends to say that Im still concerned all your polarities are correct because the more common VR cutout relay problem is them sticking closed versus failing to make up.

If the ammeter polarity (and battery) is correct, if you turn on lights or ign engine not running it ought to swing over to - discharge!!!!

Id say the jury is still out

John T
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Don Mountain
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Generator Polarize Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I wired up the entire tractor using the wiring diagram I found on this site. And when I turn on the lights the ammeter does go to the side of the meter marked "Discharge". And it is wired positive ground as the diagram shows. So when I did go through Step 6 in the repair instructions and the ammeter needle pegged on the charge side after jumping around the voltage regulator, I figured the voltage regulator probably had got fried when some of the wire insulation was chewed off by the mice in the barn and shorted together. I probably should have put a voltmeter across the output of the generator to see what it was doing at the time. But I didn't think of it in my haste to go buy a new voltage regulator and get home in time to cook supper.
 
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Don Mountain
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Generator Polarize Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I finally got back out to the barn since it warmed up some today. Put some gas in the tank and get the super C fired up. And about 10 seconds later the ammeter jumped up to about 10 amps on the charge side. I let it run for awhile and charge up the cold battery, and when I turn on all the lights the amp gauge drops down to maybe 8 amps, but keeps on charging. So I thank all of you for helping me get through this process and the directions on this web site for tracing through the problem. Now I need to replace a tube in one of the rear tires and then go onto repairing the electrical system on my Farmall M tractor. Same problem over there.
 
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