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2390 Powershift diagnostic help


 
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Matt Hubbard
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:55 am    Post subject: 2390 Powershift diagnostic help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

This forum has been a huge help and is full of a wealth of information. Hoping someone out there can help shed some light on a hydraulic problem with my Case 2390.
Just recently picked up a great running 2390. Engine purrs like a kitten. Everything was functioning for first 5 hrs use. Went to start yesterday and after reasonable warm up period, it would stall when clutch fully depressed. After several tries, it finally would allow me to clutch without stalling.
Packed everything up to road it to one of my other farms 5 miles away. Thatís when I noticed 4th gear was not working at all( no low, medium or high) Thought maybe I lost a linkage from plowing week before so continued in third gear.
Plowed about 25 acres and then things started going down hill. Did most of my plowing in 2nd gear high. When I was finishing up I noticed that 2nd gear medium and low seemed soft. Thatís when I started worrying. In 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Ėlow medium sluggish to not working at all. High gear functions normally.
My thought was problem with C-1. I checked C-1 pilot spool and it was sticking. After freeing it up low and medium seem to work a little better in some gears.
While packing everything up to road back to barn I noticed everything had gone to hell.
Here is what I have:
1. 1st gear- low doesnít work, medium works but sluggish, high and reverse works fine
2. 2nd gear-low and medium work but sluggish, high and reverse works fine
3. 3rd gear-low doesnít work, 2nd sluggish, high and reverse works fine
4. 4th gear-low, medium high, donít work(I didnít check reverse).
5. Auxiliary hydraulics do not work unless in high, and then they work very slow and only with engine reved very high.
6. 3pt does not work unless in high
7. Power steering does not seem to work at all.
Iím ordering a set of gauges to check pressures. If I have a leak in the c-1 circuit , I figured that Iíd lose both low and medium. But I clearly have medium in some gears. Low is mostly hit or miss(mostly miss). Iím thinking 4th gear is a linkage issue I just havenít found yet. Loss of power steering completely baffles me. Itís too coincident to think the cylinder gave up the same time everything else. I am also baffled as to why auxiliary and 3 pt only work in high.
Iím a decent mechanic so if I have to split and pull powershift for rebuild, that doesnít scare me. Hoping someone could point to a suspect accessible valve/junction that I should check first.
Please limit inputs to constructive feedback. I donít need a lot of ďWhat do you expect from a case power shiftĒ
I absolutely love the engine in this tractor and Iím willing to invest he time/money to get the hydraulics working correctly again.

Thanks in advance
 
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mEl
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Joined: 28 Sep 1998
Posts: 4111


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:32 am    Post subject: Re: 2390 Powershift diagnostic help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Matt Hubbard wrote:
(quoted from post at 04:55:57 02/06/13) This forum has been a huge help and is full of a wealth of information. Hoping someone out there can help shed some light on a hydraulic problem with my Case 2390.
Just recently picked up a great running 2390. Engine purrs like a kitten. Everything was functioning for first 5 hrs use. Went to start yesterday and after reasonable warm up period, it would stall when clutch fully depressed. After several tries, it finally would allow me to clutch without stalling.
Packed everything up to road it to one of my other farms 5 miles away. Thatís when I noticed 4th gear was not working at all( no low, medium or high) Thought maybe I lost a linkage from plowing week before so continued in third gear.
Plowed about 25 acres and then things started going down hill. Did most of my plowing in 2nd gear high. When I was finishing up I noticed that 2nd gear medium and low seemed soft. Thatís when I started worrying. In 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Ėlow medium sluggish to not working at all. High gear functions normally.
My thought was problem with C-1. I checked C-1 pilot spool and it was sticking. After freeing it up low and medium seem to work a little better in some gears.
While packing everything up to road back to barn I noticed everything had gone to hell.
Here is what I have:
1. 1st gear- low doesnít work, medium works but sluggish, high and reverse works fine
2. 2nd gear-low and medium work but sluggish, high and reverse works fine
3. 3rd gear-low doesnít work, 2nd sluggish, high and reverse works fine
4. 4th gear-low, medium high, donít work(I didnít check reverse).
5. Auxiliary hydraulics do not work unless in high, and then they work very slow and only with engine reved very high.
6. 3pt does not work unless in high
7. Power steering does not seem to work at all.
Iím ordering a set of gauges to check pressures. If I have a leak in the c-1 circuit , I figured that Iíd lose both low and medium. But I clearly have medium in some gears. Low is mostly hit or miss(mostly miss). Iím thinking 4th gear is a linkage issue I just havenít found yet. Loss of power steering completely baffles me. Itís too coincident to think the cylinder gave up the same time everything else. I am also baffled as to why auxiliary and 3 pt only work in high.
Iím a decent mechanic so if I have to split and pull powershift for rebuild, that doesnít scare me. Hoping someone could point to a suspect accessible valve/junction that I should check first.
Please limit inputs to constructive feedback. I donít need a lot of ďWhat do you expect from a case power shiftĒ
I absolutely love the engine in this tractor and Iím willing to invest he time/money to get the hydraulics working correctly again.

Thanks in advance


Matt, It sounds to me like the original problem was a stuck pilot spool as you determined. Unfortunately , running the unit at all with a pilot spool stuck does major damage to the stuck clutch as it is forced to slip while the other two needed for the range involved are engaged. Actually, the clutch with the most grip will force the other to slip. When you had the original getting into gear problem if you had stopped at that time and correceted the problem without going out and plowing 25 acres we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. When this happens I always recommend a complete removal and cleaning of the PS control valve as foreign material has the pilot spool lands contaminated.

That being said, the steering is an issue that you need to repair as the steering return flow sets up a 75 lb working pressure which can be checked at the "lube" pressure port on the PS control valve cover. The steering is a seperate pump bolted to the face of the main pump and is a simple gear pump which supplies both brake and steering flow. It also controls the position of the reverse lockout spool which has lands which control PS clutch flows so improper reverse lockout spool function can make shifting look bad. It can be diagnosed by a flo test.

I would highly recommend a complete flo test on the whole hydraulic system as that can be used to verify clutch leakage to pin point or damaged clutches.

If I were to make an educated guess based on your early comments I would say that a major rear split is in your future as I believe you have shiting clutch damage at this point.

mEl
 
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Matt Hubbard
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:26 am    Post subject: Re: 2390 Powershift diagnostic help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for the prompt response.

To be clear I think the pilot spool stuck at some time while I
was plowing. Low and medium worked fine when I started. It
was only when I downshifted as I was finishing that I noticed
the problem and parked.

Will a destroyed clutch pack still periodically engage?

I'm guessing roading it back to the barn was a bad idea as if a
clutch was stuck- the working clutches overpowered and
forced stuck to slip.

I will go through the spool valve. I wasn't happy with the fit of
c-1 I got while in the field. I agree that something got into valve
pack and rest are suspect

I read in my service manual that steering was on separate
circuit- does your comment imply steering can impact rest of
system?

How are the a auxillaryv hydraulics tied into clutch pack and
why would they only work in high?

Thanks again. I've read a lot of your posts and have found
them very informative.
 
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1370rod
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Joined: 07 Mar 2012
Posts: 2806


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:54 am    Post subject: Re: 2390 Powershift diagnostic help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Certainly sounds like the classic stuck pilot spool damaging the clutch pack issue. If we could avoid these darn pilot spool issues the RPS 34 is very durable unit. I think you will find that C-1 is fried so bad it damaged piston seals which would be the cause of loss of hyd function in 1 and 2 powershift speed but that still does not explain loss of steering. Also no 4th gear is worresome. You will be splitting to repair the powershift, do not stop there, pull the shift fork cover and check out the shift fork for 4th, there has to be something wrong in that area with the loss of 4th. I certainly agree with mEL the flow test is the place to start. Make sure everything is very clean when going back together and use the HP filter set from CASE, not the cheap ones. Be sure the filter light in the dash is operating properly, a lot of new owners do not even know there is a warning light. Rod
 
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DKase
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Joined: 07 Apr 2002
Posts: 2241


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 2390 Powershift diagnostic help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The power shift transmissinn has hydraulic priority over the remotes. If the power shift pistons are leaking they will rob flow from the remotes.
 
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Matt Hubbard
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 2390 Powershift diagnostic help Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well, Ive order pressure gauges and flow tester. Just got my orginal Case 2390 Service manual. Hopefully next week I can start formally diagnosing.

For anyone considering benefit of original Case Service Manual-GET IT!

I paid almost $300 for mine(ouch!) but it looks like it will be worth every penny. Over 1400 pages and lots of diagnostic information with pictures.

Manual spells out all the procedures for flow and pressure testing to specifcally diagnose trouble spot.

Just from reviewing the service manual-I'm pretty sure I've toasted my C-1 piston and likely the C1 clutch plates due to a stuck C-1 spool valve. The damage was probably done when the tractor would stall after warm up. If Tractor stalls when you engage clutch -STOP and check the spools-Specifcally C1. Otherwise you are guaranteeing to self destruct the clutch.

Just waiting for the gauges to come in to confirm.

The rear split doesn't look like it will be that difficult(famous last words)-Step by step instructions in the manual.

If you expect to work on one of these tractors, you will need at least $1000 worth of manauls and gauges in additon to your very complete tool collection.

It looks like I'll also have to fab up some splitting stands.

Rebuilding the power shift tranmission doesn't look that bad either, especially if damage is limited to C1 clutch plates and piston seals.
 
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