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46 2N - condenser?


 
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Tom Beddard ENC
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:12 am    Post subject: 46 2N - condenser? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have converted 46 2N to 12V system. Had carb issues that have been fixed and it was running good in the shop and quit suddenly. I know it is most likely the condenser. If that is the problem do you use the same one that was used with the old 6V system or does a 12V system use a different one?
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: 46 2N - condenser? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

" I know it is most likely the condenser. "

I doubt it. How do you "know" it's the condenser?

No spark?

But to answer your question, 6v or 12v doesn't matter to the condenser.
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souNdguy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: 46 2N - condenser? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

same condensor.

I agree with bruce.

It's possible though highly unlikely to be the condensor.

I have many vintage machines running vintage condensors.

they simply don't fail that often.

and when thy do fail.. they have 2 modes.. open and closed.

when they fail open.. the points burn.. pure and simple.

when they fail closed.. you loose spark.

occasionally you get one in an inbetween state betweent he 2 modes.. one loosing capacitance.. it it will start letting the poitns arc more and more.. or one that shorts ( closed) ue to temperature and you loose spark when hot.

both can be troubleshot with an ohm meter and or test light ( slightly different usage. both both will get you there )
 
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Tom Beddard ENC
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: 46 2N - condenser? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

No spark- checked as soon as it quit.
 
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Bill Rowles
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:34 am    Post subject: Re: 46 2N - condenser? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

How does fuel flow look when you open carb drain for a couple minutes draining into a container? What does the spark do on a test plug gapped to about 1/4 inch? Will it start if you jumper the ignition switch or run a wire to coil from battery?
 
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souNdguy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: 46 2N - condenser? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

hot wire coil.. check again.

if nada.. pull coil and check points.
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Re: 46 2N - condenser? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yep, as soundguy said, a condenser failure is possible but highly unlikely. I've had one on my N's in the past 14 years.

Before you check anything else, make sure you have the correct voltage at the top of the coil. It should be battery voltage w/ the points open & about half that w/ the points closed.

Assuming that the bushings & advance weights are ok, & that you have correct voltage to the coil, the most common electrical failure (no spark, weak spark) points on the frontmount are:

1. The insulator under the brass concave head screw & where the copper strip attaches. (it’s fiber & will wear out; poke & prod w/ your meter leads to make sure it still works)

2. The pigtail at the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the concave head brass screw inside the distributor. (With the coil on, the pigtail must firmly contact the brass screw. No contact = no spark.).

3. The copper strip is broken or grounded to the plate. (look very carefully for cracks & breaks)

4. The condenser wire grounding to the plate or side of the distributor.

5. The tab on the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the brass button on the cap. (With the cap on, the tab must firmly contact the brass button. No contact = no spark.)

6. Incorrect positioning of the spring clip on the plate causing the pigtail to ground. (the open part of the clip goes between 7 & 9 o’clock on the plate. That puts the straight part of the clip opposite of the timing screw at 3 o’clock)

7. Incorrect seating of the coil on the distributor due to a loose bail or no gasket.(the coil must not move at all; if it does, replace the gasket or bail. Or stick some cardboard under the bail).

8. Water/moisture inside the cap due to gasket failure or the absence of a gasket. (the cap AND coil have gaskets)

9. Dirty/corroded/burned/incorrectly gapped or misaligned points.

10. Burned rotor, cracked/carbon tracked cap.

Unless the coil is cracked or shows a dead short, chances are it's fine; square coils rarely fail cold. Pull the distributor & do a continuity check.

First, make sure your meter/light works (don't ask....)

You can change points everyday & it will not fix bad bushings. If you are having trouble w/ points failure, check the shaft. If you detect movement, chances are it needs new bushings.

Inspect the points; if they are pitted or burned, replace them. Next, dress the points by running a piece of card stock or brown paper bag through them. New points sometimes have an anti-corrosive dielectric coating on them & old points can corrode or pick up grease from a dirty feeler gauge or excessive cam lubricant. Make sure the points align correctly. Proper alignment is also critical to longevity. Look at the points when they are closed; both sides should mate evenly. Then, check the gap at .015 on the high point of all 4 cam lobes.

Now, follow these steps:

1. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other on both sides of the open points. On the side closest to the cam, you should have continuity. Not on the other side! If you do, you will also have continuity everywhere because the points are grounded.

2. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity! Now, rotate the tang on the distributor....as the points open & close, you have continuity (closed) and lose it when they open.

3. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other on the cam side of the open points. You should have continuity!

4. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity!

At this point, I just put the distributor, coil & cap all back on the tractor as a unit. The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or coil mis-aligned trying to put it back together one piece at a time & the result is something gets broken or you get a ‘no spark’ problem.

It's possible to put it back on wrong & break it. Look at the slot on the end of the cam shaft. What ever angle it happens to be, turn the distributor tang to match it. Make sure you can tell the wide side from the narrow side on both the cam & distributor! (close counts) Then place the distributor on the front of the engine, gently push it in place & slowly turn the distributor body until you feel the tang slip into the slot. Rotate the distributor body until the bolt holes line up. Then, hand tighten the two bolts until the distributor body is flush w/ the timing gear cover.

Finally, double check your firing order & plug wires. It’s 1-2-4-3, counterclockwise. It’s very easy to cross 3 & 4.

Post back w/ results & any other questions.
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Dell (WA)
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: 46 2N - condenser? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Tom.........you complain......."it was running good in the shop and quit suddenly".......LOOSE WIRING is always the cause of sudden stops!!!

"I know it is most likely the condenser"....... ain't never and never was yer condenser. .......Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister
 
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Tom Beddard ENC
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: 46 2N - condenser? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Dell you and everyone should get a good laugh out of this!! I went back to ck my problem & found that the wire going to the pigtail for the roundcan conversion was left with too much slack in it by whomever put it there. The fan belt was nice enough to take up said slack thereby removing it from the squarecan and throwing it out of way to avoid further damage. LOL_LOL!! Thanks everyone for responding to my cries for help!!
 
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