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3pt logsplitter to run off 8n hydraulics?


 
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kylemorley
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:26 pm    Post subject: 3pt logsplitter to run off 8n hydraulics? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have always wanted a 3pt hitch logsplitter, but learned long ago
when I bought my 8n that it did not have the output to run one.

Recently I had a couple shoulders done and have been forbidden
to lift a splitting maul, even for small stuff. That has me
wondering again whether it might be possible to make a small,
simple 3pt splitter able to run off the 8n's hydraulic system. It
wouldn't have to be much, just big enough for splitting kindling
and occasionally resplitting splits too big to fit into the stove, I've
got a couple old 3" and 3-1/2" cylinders lying around I could be
used.

If it didn't work I figure I could go to phase 2, and add a basic
live hydraulic conversion like Zane's or Hokies. though I am not
clear as to whether these would have enough umph either.

I know it would be cheaper and more sensible to just buy a gas-
engined trailer splitter, but I really hate the thought of another
nasty little engine, and want something handier in the woods.
 
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souNdguy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Re: 3pt logsplitter to run off 8n hydraulics? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

yes it will work / can be made to work.

YES it will be slow.

YES you will have to size the cyl correctly to get splitting force.

full out you make 1500-1700 PSI and 2.85 gpm on a decent N pump.

flow is lower at lower rpm.. though pressure will still be there at reduced flow.

the larger the piston in the cyl.. the more that 1700psi does.. etc.

later tractors and ag hyds are in the neighborhood of 2500 psi.


a pto pump could be added to your N and then you'd have plenty of flow and pressure..e tc.

so.. yes, maybee, yes, yes.

speed is about the biggest sacrifice.. and a lil fuel perhapos.

if just kindling etc.. i think it will be a fun project..
 
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flembo
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 3pt logsplitter to run off 8n hydraulics? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you do might I suggest a verticle exhaust and I agree with the pto pump, of course that means a tank as well.
 
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CJ in Michigan
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 3pt logsplitter to run off 8n hydraulics? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I use a tow-behind splitter with a Honda motor. Here's a video of a screw-type that runs off a P.T.O.-
Hy Crack splitter

 
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kylemorley
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 3pt logsplitter to run off 8n hydraulics? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Actually, I've been considering a conical screw-type. The screw heads seem awfully expensive for what they are, so which way I'll go depends on whether I can find a used screw cone at a decent price.
 
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Jimmyjack
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 3pt logsplitter to run off 8n hydraulics? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I tried it, and you wont be happy. I repiped and went to the front pump of an 861 and it works great. I wouldnt waste my time with an 8N without maybe a PTO pump as Soundguy suggests. If you are going to spend that money put it into a separate splitter and dont look back! You wont be sorry. You will be better off in just about every way, not to say the least in gasoline.
 
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Jimmyjack
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 3pt logsplitter to run off 8n hydraulics? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you got bad shoulders now, just wait till you use the screw cone for a while!
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:51 am    Post subject: Re: 3pt logsplitter to run off 8n hydraulics? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The math is simple. Assuming a 3.5" cylinder and a 20" stroke
  • Volume of the cylinder = (1.75)2 x 3.1416 x 20 = 192 cubic inches.
  • So you need 2 x 192 = 384 cubic inches of oil to cycle the cylinder one time.
  • There are 231 cubic inches in a a gallon so each cycle requires 384/231 = 1.67 gallons.
  • At 2.5 gallons per minute from teh OEM pump your cycle time would be 1.67/2.5 = .67 minutes = 40 seconds
  • Your splitting force will be 1500 PSI x (1.75)2 x 3.14.16 = 14,400 pounds = 7.2 tons
That is doable but painfully slow. I have a 4" splitter I run on my Kubby which makes 4 GPM. I poop out pretty quick so it's quicker than me swinging a maul but not by much. With good straight grain wood that you can split with short strokes it's not too bad. With twisted or knotty stuff that requires a full stroke it is slow going. You really need a flow rate closer to 10 GPM to get a decent cycle time. I can do that with one of the larger live hydraulic kits for about the cost of a PTO pump. If you want to go just remotes for the splitter and skip the live hydraulics it's a couple hundered dollars less.

TOH
 
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Duner Wi
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:17 am    Post subject: Re: 3pt logsplitter to run off 8n hydraulics? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I split with TO20 and 4" cyl for many years.
Yes it is slow so I added a small dia. cyl. for return, that speeds things up considerably.
 
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kylemorley
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:00 am    Post subject: Re: 3pt logsplitter to run off 8n hydraulics? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Can you elaborate on these options? What do you mean by going just remotes and skipping live hydraulics being a couple hundred less?

TheOldHokie wrote:
( You really need a flow rate closer to 10 GPM to get a decent cycle time. I can do that with one of the larger live hydraulic kits for about the cost of a PTO pump. If you want to go just remotes for the splitter and skip the live hydraulics it's a couple hundered dollars less.

TOH

 
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01BIRDDOG
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: 3pt logsplitter to run off 8n hydraulics? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I used one on my 861 for years and it did OK with a 4" cylinder but was a little slow. I'm not sure of the PSI on the 861 but would split anything except black gum------then it would squeal.
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: 3pt logsplitter to run off 8n hydraulics? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

kylemorley wrote:
(quoted from post at 12:00:08 02/17/13) Can you elaborate on these options? What do you mean by going just remotes and skipping live hydraulics being a couple hundred less?

TheOldHokie wrote:
( You really need a flow rate closer to 10 GPM to get a decent cycle time. I can do that with one of the larger live hydraulic kits for about the cost of a PTO pump. If you want to go just remotes for the splitter and skip the live hydraulics it's a couple hundered dollars less.

TOH


Live hydraulics is a circuit from the auxiliary pump to the 3pt lift that allows it to operate when the PTO is not turning (i.e disengaged or clutch depressed). That circuit can not carry more than 2.5 GPM or it will swamp the control valve inside the3 tractor and the 3pt won't operate correctly - it will raise and stay there due to the eexcess back pressure in the control valve.

When I use a bigger pump for remotes I add a flow divider valve that splits the pump output into two streams - 2.5 GPM for the live hydraulics and the full flow to the remotes. The flow divider and extra plumbing increases the cost by roughly $200 - the flow divider is a $100 component just by itself. You can simply eliminate the divider and live hydraulics related plumbing and still have 10 GPM "live" remotes but you will not have a "live" 3pt lift. It's also easy to add the divider and second circuit at a later time if you find the money and/or decide you want/need it. Once you have the basic system in place the "extras" are easy - all it takes is $$$$ Wink

There are a number of configurations for running a log splitter off the tractor - all cheaper and IMO better then using a PTO pump. Give me a call or drop me an email if you want the full rundown.

TOH

301.655.0631 (EST)
oldhokie@verizon.net
 
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Bill Rowles
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 3pt logsplitter to run off 8n hydraulics? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Forget the screw cone splitter. I have one but will not use it anymore.....too dangerous and too hard to deal with the situation when it gets stuck in the wood.....there is no reverse and even if there was it would be too dangerous to use.
I built a splitter using the Tractor Supply (TSC)3-point splitter to which I added a 10 GPM PTO-driven pump and an oil tank I purchased from Northern Tool. I made a torque-taker arm that is bolted to the pump and rests on the tractor axle housing and a small platform to hold the pump when removed from the PTO shaft. No hose connections to make since the tank and pump are permanently connected to the splitter frame and piping. It works great with the tractor engine running at about 800 RPM....never gets stuck in wood!
 
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