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tractor designs

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1968 403
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: tractor designs Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I was reading the below posts about Magnum tractors and I have a question. Why was the IH rearend and transmission design chosen? Why wasn"t the Case tranny and rearend chosen for the new tractor?
 
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Adirondack case guy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: tractor designs Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The new IH tranny was a continuous progression Power Shift with no range gears to shift, like the Case Range Power Shift, plus it had clutchless reversing.
Loren
 
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Straw Boss
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re: tractor designs Reply to specific post Reply with quote

When I bought my 8920 back when, I was told by the dealer to NOT use the clutch whenever possible. Said it can sense the load itself better than any man can feather the clutch, even when shifting from forward to reverse. Still going strong after 16 years.
 
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oldtanker
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:09 pm    Post subject: Re: tractor designs Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Just because IH failed and Case didn't has no bearing on weather a design from one or the other was better. IH made plenty of mistakes which lead to it's failure. Case on the other hand at the time seems to have been well run. Run good enough that a better design, even from another shop was chosen as the one to use once they owned the rights to it.

Rick
 
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andrew hegeman
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:31 am    Post subject: Re: tractor designs Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CAS DID FAIL. nobody seems to remember that DETAIL. tenneco merged the 2 tractor companies together. the case transmission and rearend were not nearly as reliable what was put in the magnum. or the front axle for that matter.
 
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andrew hegeman
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:34 am    Post subject: Re: tractor designs Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CASE DID FAIL. nobody seems to remember that detail. tenneco merged the 2 tractor companies together. the case transmission and rearend were not nearly as reliable as what was put in the magnum. or the front axle for that matter.
 
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Adirondack case guy
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:02 am    Post subject: Re: tractor designs Reply to specific post Reply with quote

No Body here disputes the quality of the Magnum Tranny which IH developed. As far as front ends, the "boxed beam 2wd front axle is a direct decendent of the 94 series. MFDs were bough from mfgs. overseas, like ZF and Corraro. It was cheaper for Case to buy the bankrupt IH Co. than to retool for their planned upgraded all CDC powered tractors.
The Magnum was the combination of the best of both companies.
Loren
 
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Kevin B from Illinois
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:22 am    Post subject: Re: tractor designs Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Case didn't fail? I think they did they just kept downsizing to where they had just a few tractors they were making not a full line company like deere and ih or even ac that was also a larger company then case, and yes teneco did merge the 2 companys.
 
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1370rod
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:25 am    Post subject: Re: tractor designs Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I was no longer employed at a dealership when the merger occurred so I do not know what rumors or facts were circulating at that time. There was not CASE failure, only a surprised industry to hear CASE co. BOUGHT IH. The rest of the industry applauded the move because of the excess manufacturing facilities in the US a that time. If memory serves me correctly IH Ag. was bought for a fire sale price of 400 million. Getting back to the orringal question I'm sure management wanted the most bang for the buck and that happened to be the IH design tranny, I think history has shown they made the right choose on the tranny and engine. Rod.
 
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Bermuda Ken
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:35 am    Post subject: Re: tractor designs Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you look at what the 2 companies had on their R&D boards at the time, IH was much closer to production than CASE.

CASE was working on a CDC engined, 24 speed powershift (same as the 94 series)transmission but with an all new 2-door cab. IH had the 18 speed powershift with 1-door cab already built and was field testing it.

There is a a new book due out in July of 2013 that covers this subject well. I suggest anyone interested, buy a copy of it to know more.
 
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Glenn F.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: tractor designs Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well it's still CASE IH, in that order. A rather tough pill for some people to swallow! You red guys'd do anything to reverse that order. Sorry.

Glenn
 
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oldtanker
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:08 am    Post subject: Re: tractor designs Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Glenn F. wrote:
(quoted from post at 08:01:08 02/25/13) Well it's still CASE IH, in that order. A rather tough pill for some people to swallow! You red guys'd do anything to reverse that order. Sorry.

Glenn



LOL now that's funny. I own a M and a 1206. Don't own any Case stuff. The CaseIH order never bothered me.

Rick
 
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pete 23
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: tractor designs Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Not to keep beating a dead horse here, but Tennaco bacame majority owner of Case in I believe 1967 and in 1970, took over the reins. Before that time period I think a bank or group of banks had it in receivership or something like that. IH was selling and pooling resourses for many years before Tenaco bought them. It sold the mines, steel mills, construction division, twine mfg facilities. Yes, they were going down hill. I have a block in the M I happen to own that was pretty much a fire sale deal when IH closed their foundry that was making those older engine replacement parts, in France I think. Lot of history on both side of isle.
 
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Adirondack case guy
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: tractor designs Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Case was owned by Kerne Co. Land Company, a California base company that was invested heavily in produce farming. They kept Case a float, but were not big enough to support a Lot of R&D, Tennico swallowed them up and invested heavily in Case R&D and the birth of the 70 series tractors, and forward through time adding IH, untill Fiat took over. There was solid financial support from Tennico throughout this period.
Loren
 
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Bermuda Ken
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: tractor designs Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Tenneco put alot of $$$ in CASE to get it up to speed in the market. However CASE also shed alot of $$$ loosing lines, when they dropped everything except tractors. Thus going from a full line manufacture to a 1 line.

When you only have 1 line to market and R&D, your costs plummet dramatically.(your income does too!)

If IH, Ford or Allis-Chalmers had done the same in the 1970's, might this have changed thier future???
 
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