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404 timing better but no start.


 
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rlo
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:21 pm    Post subject: 404 timing better but no start. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Followed instructions from previous posts for finding TDC & setting rotor to #1. It is turning over freely now not fighting the starter, but still not starting & coughing when it turns over. Do I continue to pull & reset distributor or can it be fine tuned by loosening & turning? Need to be walked thru it. Here's a picture of the points, rotor, etc at TDC not sure you can tell anything. Thanks again for your help & patience

 
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Janicholson
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 404 timing better but no start. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The use of a test light to set the spark timing is as follows. With the ignition on, and the test light hooked to the coil connection to the distributor, turn the distributor in the direction from rotor rotation till the light goes off (points close). Now turn it opposite rotor rotation until the light just sputters between on and off. Lock it down, and turn off the ignition. Don"t leave it on more than a couple of minutes!
If it is on compression TDC, the rotor is now pointing to #1 Plug (front of engine) Jim
 
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rlo
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 404 timing better but no start. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I see there is a lot of movement in the rotor. It has almost 3/16" slop & you can move it back & forth real easy. The gear looked okay. I think its the piece the rotor attaches to ... the cam? Is there a rebuild kit? Thanks.
 
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kevinj54
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 404 timing better but no start. Reply to specific post Reply with quote


You are moving the advance unit. It should snap back when you let go. (NORMAL). Go back and read what these guys have told you, follow it, and it will be timed correctly.

You may want to buy a manual for your tractor also.
 
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rlo
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 404 timing better but no start. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It does not snap back it's slop something is worn. I've read everything over and over & followed it. Believe me I appreciate it. I do have the shop manual, parts manual, and operators manual. Thanks for your time.
 
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Janicholson
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 404 timing better but no start. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There is a centrifugal governor in the distributor. It has weights and springs that advance the timing as the engine RPM increases. The rotor should move through a 20 to 30 degree arc. But the springs must pull it back. Take the points out, then the backing plate. The springs and weights will now be visible. I bet the springs are toast, or the shaft is way sticky on the input shaft. Jim
 
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kevinj54
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:44 am    Post subject: Re: 404 timing better but no start. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

RLO wrote:
(quoted from post at 22:23:43 03/06/13) It does not snap back it's slop something is worn. I've read everything over and over & followed it. Believe me I appreciate it. I do have the shop manual, parts manual, and operators manual. Thanks for your time.


Tear it down and inspect as Jim said, while you are in there make sure the shaft and bearing is in good condition.
 
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mkirsch
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:14 am    Post subject: Re: 404 timing better but no start. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The distributor can be "fine tuned" 360 degrees if necessary. It's not limited to a few degrees like a magneto.

Just loosen the two clamps holding the distributor to its base and rotate. MARK WHERE IT IS FIRST so you have a starting point.

If you really want to get clever about it you can loosen up the clamps, start cranking the tractor, and slowly turn the distributor as you crank until the tractor starts.

I seem to remember that you said something about using too long of a screw and shearing something off in the distributor... What was that all about? Franky if you did something like that the whole distributor is suspect.
 
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rlo
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:35 am    Post subject: Re: 404 timing better but no start. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

OK here goes: RE changing condenser /points & screws. I struggled at length to put back the screws in a horizontal mounted distributor when you can not see the holes. It's also a loader tractor. Ended up using sightly longer screws held one in place for condenser with putty while I lined it up. The other for the slotted hole in the points bracket I had to use a fine wire to hold it in the slot on the piece so I could line it up blind. I thought about interference when I did it but didn't think the tolernace to the advance mechanism was that close. WRONG! Sheared the pin in the shaft so I fixed that now trying to get timed again. I'm at the point of getting a rebuilt distributor since my forum research says the internal parts are hard to come by and expensive. Got way too much time into this minor project..even for a retired guy.

Lesson learned #1 if I ever have to change points/ condenser again I'll pull the dang distributor so I can see what I'm doing. Lesson # 2 The forum has some terrific folks with lots of knowledge and I'm really grateful for you guys taking the time to carry me on this. Thanks again! RLO
 
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