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9n generator


 
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noble527
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:10 am    Post subject: 9n generator Reply to specific post Reply with quote

greetings all, I have read and read until my eyes went blurry, I have a 1941 9n 6v system. For the last couple of years after re wireing I've been able to go out and fire the ole girl right up no problems. Seems to never read on the amp gauge, all up until recently I've had a dead battery. I pulled the battery out, and recharged it for a good day. After putting it back in it fired right up. Checking battery voltage I was only getting 6.24 wot. I suspect this isnt charging, so last night removed the hood for easy access to wireing, noticed that the starter cable looked a little ugly, and has worn through the original insulation. Planning on replacing that, looked online at jmor wiring diagram, and on the resistor behind the dash it shows on diagram that it has more then two wires on it. Mine only has 2 wires coming off of it. Could this be an issue? Also i would like to bench test the generator, to make sure it motors. It has one wire, and then on case it has 2 studs with a jumper wire on them. Looks to have the 3rd brush adjustment. Input on testing generator? I love the old 6v system due to the fact its original, and it makes people scratch their heads when its 0 degrees and she fires up. Planning on restoring in a year, along with engine rebuild. The oil pressure barely registers after warm...thats another story. Thanks for all the input, i love this site!
 
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souNdguy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: 9n generator Reply to specific post Reply with quote

post a pic of that generator.. identify if it is using a cutout.. or if there is a vreg installed. if a vreg.. is it installed just 2 wire as a cutout?

post back the details.

ps.. disconnect wires from genny, turn 3rd brush up and apply battery to armature to see if it motors.
 
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noble525
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: 9n generator Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It has a voltage cut out, no regulator. Cut out is round with 2 wires. Don't have the genny with me at work to post. I have the genny off the tractor, can I just apply 6v to where the single wire went?
 
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souNdguy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:25 am    Post subject: Re: 9n generator Reply to specific post Reply with quote

6v- actually, to armature...and ground to the frame.. keep in mind it was + ground ...
 
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noble527
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: 9n generator Reply to specific post Reply with quote

right, can I use a 6 volt charger? Which post on the top where the 2 wires are is it for ground? Or does it matter? Also any input on the wireing of the resistor why I would only have 2 wires coming off the the resistor?
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: 9n generator Reply to specific post Reply with quote

noble527 wrote:
(quoted from post at 12:28:13 03/07/13) right, can I use a 6 volt charger? Which post on the top where the 2 wires are is it for ground? Or does it matter? Also any input on the wireing of the resistor why I would only have 2 wires coming off the the resistor?
Since the two posts on the barrel are jumpered together, then they are now both ground, as is the entire metal body &brackets of the generator.
The third terminal on the 12250 resistor assembly is an isolated stud, commonly used as a power tie-point, but someone could have wired it such that an ammeter terminal is serving as that tie point, or even an ignition switch terminal or a wire nut or whatever.
 
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Dell (WA)
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: 9n generator Reply to specific post Reply with quote

noble527.........it matters, look CLOSELY at yer 2-posts on yer genny. One is INSULATED (plastic) and the other is GROUND. do NOT connect yer 6-volt charger to GROUND ...or... you will buying a new (and rare) 6-volt charger.

ALL squarecan ignition coils used on the weird 9N 4-nipple dizzy, require the MANDATORY "infamous ballast resistor. NO ARGUE!!!

As fer the "3-wire" ballast resistor question. One of the terminals is the BATTERY source. And the source provides electricity to one of the ignition switch terminals. The ignition switch then provides electricity to one-side of the MANDATORY ballast resistor and the OTHER side of the ballast resistor, a wire goes thru the sparkie tube to the top of the squarecan ignition coil terminal.

You do know that you MUST "polarize" yer 2-terminal roundcan cut-out underneath the battery tray on the steering column, don't you???
Just "arc-spark" the 2-terminals together, engine OFF. I use a pair of pliers handles, you can use bailin'warr iff'n you want. You can re-polarize as many times as it takes to feel warm'n'fuzzy ...er... charging.

As a side note; adjust yer 3rd-brush so yer ammeter reads about 5-amps charge (+) at 1/3-throttle. Gennys do NOT charge at idle. .......the charged Dell
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: 9n generator Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Nope....doesn't matter on his. From his original post: "It has one wire, and then on case it has 2 studs with a jumper wire on them"
He is using an 8N10000A, & with the A-to-G jumper, it acts just like a 9N10000C or 2N10000. Like this: with high-end/high cost/deluxe tensioner Smile

 
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noble527
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: 9n generator Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Mine looks just like the one in the picture (minus the strap Wink. So I can hook my 6 volt charger up to the genny? Pos on single wire post, neg on either one of the top screws? As for the resistor behind the dash, do I need to wire it just like the diagram the JMOR has made? Sorry for all the questions, just dont like to see smoke rolling when i do the wrong thing!! Thanks!
 
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noble527
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:34 am    Post subject: Re: 9n generator Reply to specific post Reply with quote

forgot to mention mine does not have any lights.
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: 9n generator Reply to specific post Reply with quote

noble527 wrote:
(quoted from post at 14:28:42 03/07/13) Mine looks just like the one in the picture (minus the strap Wink. So I can hook my 6 volt charger up to the genny? Pos on single wire post, neg on either one of the top screws? As for the resistor behind the dash, do I need to wire it just like the diagram the JMOR has made? Sorry for all the questions, just dont like to see smoke rolling when i do the wrong thing!! Thanks!
IF your battery is installed with + (large post to tractor chassis ground, then connect your charger reverse to what you described. i.e., charger + to either of barrel posts AND charger negative (-) to single post on rear end plate of generator (Arm terminal). I have made dozens of diagrams, but if you found one for 9N with cut out and generator, then you probably have the correct diagram. One other thing, you would be better off using jumper cables & connecting gen to battery than trying to use charger...charger my not yield enough output, may no provide any output if a newer automatic type, etc.
 
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noble527
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:47 am    Post subject: Re: 9n generator Reply to specific post Reply with quote

welp, last night went I got home, I applied voltage to the genny, and she spun, so im assuming that means it will generate some sort of voltage. Ordered a new starter cable, 0 gauge, and going to re wire. Hopefully after this is all said and done she will charge! Im thinking that my amp meter is probably ok, and no need to replace. Any testing ideas on the cut out, to check and see if its working properly? Thanks again for all the info!
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:38 am    Post subject: Re: 9n generator Reply to specific post Reply with quote

noble527 wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:47:24 03/08/13) welp, last night went I got home, I applied voltage to the genny, and she spun, so im assuming that means it will generate some sort of voltage. Ordered a new starter cable, 0 gauge, and going to re wire. Hopefully after this is all said and done she will charge! Im thinking that my amp meter is probably ok, and no need to replace. Any testing ideas on the cut out, to check and see if its working properly? Thanks again for all the info!
There are 2 terminals on the cut out, one to battery & one to generator & they are specific & not reversible. Contacts inside the cut out close to connect battery to generator or open to disconnect battery from generator. From a start, as generator voltage increased with increasing RPM, the generator voltage will reach about 7.0 to 8.5 volts and within that range the contacts will close, connecting generator to battery. If you place an analog voltmeters leads on those 2 cut out terminals, they should show voltage up until the contacts close, at which point that voltage should drop to zero.
Upon engine shut down, as generator slows toward a stop, the generator voltage drops and at some point, the contacts should open to disconnect the battery from the generator, at which time the meter should read a value equal to battery voltage (stopped engine).
 
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Mad Farmer
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 9n generator Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You can jumper the two wires on the cutout when it is running. It it charges jumpered you have a bad cutout , or connection at cutout
 
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