1951 Super C Won’t Charge

[Norske]

I apologize to post another thread about this, but I have read the majority of the other threads and I have not been able to find a solution to my problem.

When I got the tractor it had a 3 brush generator and a 2 coil regulator and I could not get it to charge. I tried polarizing it and went through the steps to diagnose the issue, but couldn’t get it to charge. I replaced the regulator and polarized again, with still no luck. Had the generator tested and checked out. I determined that it was a possibility it could be mismatched because a 3 brush generator needs a cutout.

I decided to ditch the generator and convert it to 12V and install a one wire alternator and an ignition coil with an internal resistor. Still no luck. I then tried to excite the self exciting alternator by jumping the R terminal to the battery post on the alternator with no change. I thought maybe it wasn’t turning the alternator fast enough so I then installed a smaller pulley on the alternator, no change. I then took the alternator to a guy who replaced the 63 amp stator and replaced it with a 30 amp stator, no change (this would help it excite at a lower rpm, and a super c doesn’t need 63 amps). Took it back to the same guy and he converted it to a 3 wire alternator, it has a wire coming from the R terminal to the positive side of the ignition coil and a wire going from the F terminal to the battery post on the alternator, still no charge. (This would help it excite if it wasn’t self exciting)

I attached a file that explains how I have it wired.

-The ammeter is new
-Today while testing I stayed around 12.3 down to 12.2 volts all the time
-I use a voltmeter to measure voltage at the battery post on the alternator and ground to the alternator itself.
-I’ve tried it a full throttle, plus a little more by pulling on the rod going to the governor
-I replaced the wire going from the alternator to the ammeter, and ammeter to the positive post on the battery
-I replaced the wire going from the ignition switch to the same post on the ammeter as the alternator
-I’ve tried bypassing the ammeter and go directly to the positive post on the battery.
-I’m grounded from the negative post on the battery to the frame with a ground strap
-I’ve cleaned up ground connections on the frame where I ground the battery to, as well as where the alternator grounds its self to the bracket, and the bracket to the engine.
-currently I have the fuse pulled out for the lights because they have nothing to do with it charging, so I just wanted to eliminate them from the equation
-with the ignition switch off I still have 12 volts going to the alternator.
-with the ignition switch on I have 12 volts going to the positive side of the ignition coil and 6 volts on the negative side of the ignition coil
-one thing I found odd was that with the ignition switch on I had continuity from the negative terminal of the battery to the negative side of the ignition coil as well as continuity from the positive terminal of the battery to the negative side of the ignition coil, I’m not sure if that normal or not.
-is there something with the ignition system that could keep it from charging?

Any help is appreciated

 

[wore out]

I apologize to post another thread about this, but I have read the majority of the other threads and I have not been able to find a solution to my problem.

When I got the tractor it had a 3 brush generator and a 2 coil regulator and I could not get it to charge. I tried polarizing it and went through the steps to diagnose the issue, but couldn’t get it to charge. I replaced the regulator and polarized again, with still no luck. Had the generator tested and checked out. I determined that it was a possibility it could be mismatched because a 3 brush generator needs a cutout.

I decided to ditch the generator and convert it to 12V and install a one wire alternator and an ignition coil with an internal resistor. Still no luck. I then tried to excite the self exciting alternator by jumping the R terminal to the battery post on the alternator with no change. I thought maybe it wasn’t turning the alternator fast enough so I then installed a smaller pulley on the alternator, no change. I then took the alternator to a guy who replaced the 63 amp stator and replaced it with a 30 amp stator, no change (this would help it excite at a lower rpm, and a super c doesn’t need 63 amps). Took it back to the same guy and he converted it to a 3 wire alternator, it has a wire coming from the R terminal to the positive side of the ignition coil and a wire going from the F terminal to the battery post on the alternator, still no charge. (This would help it excite if it wasn’t self exciting)

I attached a file that explains how I have it wired.

-The ammeter is new
-Today while testing I stayed around 12.3 down to 12.2 volts all the time
-I use a voltmeter to measure voltage at the battery post on the alternator and ground to the alternator itself.
-I’ve tried it a full throttle, plus a little more by pulling on the rod going to the governor
-I replaced the wire going from the alternator to the ammeter, and ammeter to the positive post on the battery
-I replaced the wire going from the ignition switch to the same post on the ammeter as the alternator
-I’ve tried bypassing the ammeter and go directly to the positive post on the battery.
-I’m grounded from the negative post on the battery to the frame with a ground strap
-I’ve cleaned up ground connections on the frame where I ground the battery to, as well as where the alternator grounds its self to the bracket, and the bracket to the engine.
-currently I have the fuse pulled out for the lights because they have nothing to do with it charging, so I just wanted to eliminate them from the equation
-with the ignition switch off I still have 12 volts going to the alternator.
-with the ignition switch on I have 12 volts going to the positive side of the ignition coil and 6 volts on the negative side of the ignition coil
-one thing I found odd was that with the ignition switch on I had continuity from the negative terminal of the battery to the negative side of the ignition coil as well as continuity from the positive terminal of the battery to the negative side of the ignition coil, I’m not sure if that normal or not.
-is there something with the ignition system that could keep it from charging?

Any help is appreciatedView attachment 78536

Let's start by IGNORING the "R" and "F" markings on the alternator as they apply to an oddball/archaic alternator that was only made for a short time. It has the "frame" of a 10SI, but the internal regulator was OMITTED on those. The terminals on that alternator were arranged "I I" (just like the 10DN it replaced), your internally regulated alternator will have the terminals arranged "- -". (For some reason, the cases continued to be cast with the markings that do not apply apparently throughout the production run and even "clones" are so marked.)

Now, take another look and find the "1" and "2" markings and tell us how you have those connected.

 

[used red MN]

Hello Norske, welcome to YT. In the previous YT post I will link the upper diagram shows you how to wire your tractor using a Delco 19si 3 wire alternator. YT post Farmall C 6 to 12 volt conversion

 

[Norske]

Let's start by IGNORING the "R" and "F" markings on the alternator as they apply to an oddball/archaic alternator that was only made for a short time. It has the "frame" of a 10SI, but the internal regulator was OMITTED on those. The terminals on that alternator were arranged "I I" (just like the 10DN it replaced), your internally regulated alternator will have the terminals arranged "- -". (For some reason, the cases continued to be cast with the markings that do not apply apparently throughout the production run and even "clones" are so marked.)

Now, take another look and find the "1" and "2" markings and tell us how you have those connected.

1 is going to the positive terminal on the ignition coil, 2 is going to the battery stud on the alternator

 

[Janicholson]

1 is going to the positive terminal on the ignition coil, 2 is going to the battery stud on the alternator

The #1 spade terminal is Counter clockwise (looking from the back) from the #2. With the Bat stud connected to the Ammeter, and the tractor not running, and the #2 terminal hooked to the Bat terminal stud, the #1 terminal will appear as a full ground. touching an ohm meter from it to the alt. case will show near zero resistance. With the tractor running (at least one time at full throttle) that #1 spade should show 12 volts or more or as much as 14.5. If either one of those measurements are missing, the regulator is not operating correctly.
Also the Wire going from #1 terminal to the ignition circuit must have one of three things in series with it to prevent the tractor from continuing to run when shut off. one of these must be in series in that wire: a small lightbulb (not LED) like a dash lightbulb or clearance light bulb, a 10 ohm 10 watt resistor, or a diode with its polarity allowing voltage to go toward the alternator, and not out of it. Because if this alternator is not working for you I suggest returning it to the source, and purchasing a 3 wire 10SI from an auto parts store. Jim

 

[Norske]

I have 10.8v on the 1 terminal grounded to the case and 11.48v on the battery stud on the alternator. I do have continuity from the 1 terminal to the alternator case with the tractor off and the switch out. It’s odd that it works on a bench, but not on a tractor.

Thanks

 

[used red MN]

By any chance did you mistakenly connect it positive ground? Even if just for a second it will damage the alternator so it won’t charge. There would have been some sparking at the connection you were making as in battery cable to post.

 

[Norske]

The #1 spade terminal is Counter clockwise (looking from the back) from the #2. With the Bat stud connected to the Ammeter, and the tractor not running, and the #2 terminal hooked to the Bat terminal stud, the #1 terminal will appear as a full ground. touching an ohm meter from it to the alt. case will show near zero resistance. With the tractor running (at least one time at full throttle) that #1 spade should show 12 volts or more or as much as 14.5. If either one of those measurements are missing, the regulator is not operating correctly.
Also the Wire going from #1 terminal to the ignition circuit must have one of three things in series with it to prevent the tractor from continuing to run when shut off. one of these must be in series in that wire: a small lightbulb (not LED) like a dash lightbulb or clearance light bulb, a 10 ohm 10 watt resistor, or a diode with its polarity allowing voltage to go toward the alternator, and not out of it. Because if this alternator is not working for you I suggest returning it to the source, and purchasing a 3 wire 10SI from an auto parts store. Jim

Is there a certain 10 SI alternator from Napa that you’d recommend, it looks like they have a few.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/search?text=delco%2010si%20alternator&referer=v2

 

[used red MN]

Is there a certain 10 SI alternator from Napa that you’d recommend, it looks like they have a few.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/search?text=delco%2010si%20alternator&referer=v2

Tell them you want one for a 1977 Chevy half ton V8, no A/C.

 

[Norske]

By any chance did you mistakenly connect it positive ground? Even if just for a second it will damage the alternator so it won’t charge. There would have been some sparking at the connection you were making as in battery cable to post.

I do not believe so, the alternator did work on a bench yesterday. And i know I have not touched ground and positive since I brought it home.

 

[Norske]

Tell them you want one for a 1977 Chevy half ton V8, no A/C.

Roger that

 

[used red MN]

I do not believe so, the alternator did work on a bench yesterday. And i know I have not touched ground and positive since I brought it home.

Happen to meet a guy at the alternator shop with an alternator he had for his JD 3020? A guy on the JD forum a few days ago also claimed his alternator charged fine at the repair shop he took it to.

 

[Norske]

Happen to meet a guy at the alternator shop with an alternator he had for his JD 3020? A guy on the JD forum a few days ago also claimed his alternator charged fine at the repair shop he took it to

 

[Norske]

Haha I did not. The guy is known to be a straight shooter, but mistakes happen.

 

[Red Agony]

I wonder if you lost the ground through the frame? Can you hook a jumper from the battery ground connection to the frame of the alternator?

 

[Norske]

I did try that as well with no luck.

 

[Norske]

I ran to Napa to get an alternator, part number 213-4011. Put it on an and tried it, still won’t charge. I am not sure what is going on, it’s not that hard and should be simple.

 

[used red MN]

Try it with both 1 & 2 side terminals jumped to the Bat. terminal. If it is left with the 1 terminal energized over it will drain the battery. If that doesn’t work, do you have a 12 volt auto/tractor head lamp of any sort? See if it will shine off the Bat. terminal on the alternator. This will check that your wire will conduct power under load.
If that all checks out, takes some photos of your set up. I have seen where in a guys mind he thinks his connection's are x, but in reality they are y.
You have an ammeter and not a volt meter, correct?
I see you diagram shows “system fuses” do you have any fuses besides the light fuse you mentioned. If they blew the ignition should have no power if wired correctly. I personally prefer to add only a fusible link where the power is drawn off the starter battery cable lug.
It is wired as the diagram I have provided shows? You have explained it that way but double check.

 

[Norske]

Try it with both 1 & 2 side terminals jumped to the Bat. terminal. If it is left with the 1 terminal energized over it will drain the battery. If that doesn’t work, do you have a 12 volt auto/tractor head lamp of any sort? See if it will shine off the Bat. terminal on the alternator. This will check that your wire will conduct power under load.
If that all checks out, takes some photos of your set up. I have seen where in a guys mind he thinks his connection's are x, but in reality they are y.
You have an ammeter and not a volt meter, correct?
I see you diagram shows “system fuses” do you have any fuses besides the light fuse you mentioned. If they blew the ignition should have no power if wired correctly. I personally prefer to add only a fusible link where the power is drawn off the starter battery cable lug.
It is wired as the diagram I have provided shows? You have explained it that way but double check.

I swapped 1 and 2. Both ways drains the battery. I swapped 1 and 2 on the alternator I had that the man converted to a 3 wire and put a 30 amp stator in. I didn’t want to do something to the new alternator before I brought it back to Napa. I did bring the other alternator back to Napa already. It is a 60 amp ammeter as well, not a voltmeter

 

[used red MN]

The 1 & 2 terminals, both jumped to the Bat. terminal on the alternator is just a temporary connection for testing. To say it is not charging is that going by the ammeter? If so it may be bad, does it twitch at all towards discharge when you turn the ignition on. Check the voltage across the battery terminals with a meter to see if it is charging, should have something over 13 volts. The back bearing cap in the middle on the back of the alternator will magnetize when it is charging.