1953 Farmall Super M HYDRAULICS

[lenray]

On this tractor I ONLY want to run a power steering pump---The steering motor will be in the steering shaft. That hyd. box under the gas tank---can I just use that as the hyd. oil holding tank???? Splice into those two lines coming from the hyd. pump in front of the distributor...The steering motor I have also came with its own small hyd. tank. Maybe use both hyd. oil tanks???? Thanks for any help.....

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

No. The steering motor won't take the full flow from the hydraulic pump. You still need a priority valve to split off 3GPM for the steering. Simply dump the other output straight back into the reservoir if you don't want any other hydraulics.

The small tank that came with the steering motor is meant to be used with the belt-driven power steering pump. You do not need it in this application.

 

[lenray]

No. The steering motor won't take the full flow from the hydraulic pump. You still need a priority valve to split off 3GPM for the steering. Simply dump the other output straight back into the reservoir if you don't want any other hydraulics.

The small tank that came with the steering motor is meant to be used with the belt-driven power steering pump. You do not need it in this application.

Thanks for your reply you have helped in the past also. I have the complete unit all hooked together when I brought them home-----------The steering motor-the small hyd.reserviour and the complete system with distributor and two hyd. pumps hooked together. The hyd. pump nearest the distributor the lines went to the steering motor and the small reserviour. That is the way it has run for many years....I also wondered about too much oil going to the steering motor, but that is how it has been running....I have the distributor--it sits up and down not horizontal and the two hyd. pumps installed in front of the distributor...Is there any value in that setup???? I will not be using them.....

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Thanks for your reply you have helped in the past also. I have the complete unit all hooked together when I brought them home-----------The steering motor-the small hyd.reserviour and the complete system with distributor and two hyd. pumps hooked together. The hyd. pump nearest the distributor the lines went to the steering motor and the small reserviour. That is the way it has run for many years....I also wondered about too much oil going to the steering motor, but that is how it has been running....I have the distributor--it sits up and down not horizontal and the two hyd. pumps installed in front of the distributor...Is there any value in that setup???? I will not be using them.....

The aftermarket pump that was running the steering is much lower GPM than the factory IH pump. The M&W pump is 3.5GPM vs the IH 12GPM. 3.5 is ideal for the steering. 12 would split the case on the motor.

 

[lenray]

The aftermarket pump that was running the steering is much lower GPM than the factory IH pump. The M&W pump is 3.5GPM vs the IH 12GPM. 3.5 is ideal for the steering. 12 would split the case on the motor.

OK I see what you are saying.. If I JUST USE THE ONE BIGGER PUMP----the 12 gallon per minute......Then I need a 3 gallon per minute Priority Valve....This is where I am confused------Where do I GET THIS PRIORITY VALVE that is 3 gallon per minute and how is it hooked up....I no nothing about this.....need help......

 

[Janicholson]

one example using Steering priority valve as a search.
The valve is placed and connected so its input goes to the hydraulic pump supplying pressure, the steering hose goes to the steering torque generator, the exhaust (outlet) goes to all other hydraulics, or if not needed dumped back to the reservoir. The torque generator's exhaust goes to the hydraulic reservoir. Jim

 

[lenray]

one example using Steering priority valve as a search.
The valve is placed and connected so its input goes to the hydraulic pump supplying pressure, the steering hose goes to the steering torque generator, the exhaust (outlet) goes to all other hydraulics, or if not needed dumped back to the reservoir. The torque generator's exhaust goes to the hydraulic reservoir. Jim

will the valve pictured cut my 12 gallon per minute hyd. pump back to the 3 gallon per minute my Behlen power steering motor needs.....

 

[Janicholson]

will the valve pictured cut my 12 gallon per minute hyd. pump back to the 3 gallon per minute my Behlen power steering motor needs.....

It was a generic image from a reliable manufacturer. There are several manufacturers of priority valves. some are adjustable, some are preset. I believe the answer takes your responsibility to research the options. Assume the hose sizes that exist, and their pressure ratings are critical to meet or exceed when plumbing the valve into your hydraulics. Jim

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

OK I see what you are saying.. If I JUST USE THE ONE BIGGER PUMP----the 12 gallon per minute......Then I need a 3 gallon per minute Priority Valve....This is where I am confused------Where do I GET THIS PRIORITY VALVE that is 3 gallon per minute and how is it hooked up....I no nothing about this.....need help......

You get the priority valve, also known as a "flow divider" from your favorite source of hydraulic components. Surplus Center is one commonly-recommended source on this forum. Northern Tool, and Summit Hydraulics are other sources.

The flow divider will come with a diagram showing which port is "in," which port is "priority" and which port is the "excess flow." You connect the pressure out from the pump to the in, you connect the priority to the in on the power steering, and you connect the excess flow back to the reservoir.

 

[D Slater]

On this tractor I ONLY want to run a power steering pump---The steering motor will be in the steering shaft. That hyd. box under the gas tank---can I just use that as the hyd. oil holding tank???? Splice into those two lines coming from the hyd. pump in front of the distributor...The steering motor I have also came with its own small hyd. tank. Maybe use both hyd. oil tanks???? Thanks for any help.....

Sounds like you bought a original add on Behlen power steering set up with a aftermarket vertical distributor drive. Does steering motor sit in front off steering post? Don't know why you want to do it but maybe like a fellow that done that that didn't use hydraulics on a SM. He just locked lever back on unit under tank and used outlet port on unit to Behlen unit and outlet to suction line to pump. That way pressure to pump was regulated. He bragged how easy it steered and used for a few years. Or does your tractor have hydraulic unit under fuel tank? Went to look at a tractor once advertised with power steering and be danged if they weren't running it from a belly pump that stopped when tractor did unless shifted to neutral and clutch pedal back out. Is picture some of the parts you have?

 

[Janicholson]

This diagram is very generic The black hoses are from the Live Pump, to the Priority Valve, then to the normal M valving
From the top of the priority valve reduced flow goes to the PS torque generator. The blue hoses return fluid to the reservoir, or supply oil to the pump. I will state that I think you need a local hydraulics/mechanic to assist with this project. Every installation I have seen is different. I will also say that the secondary pump you say you have can work well with the Steering if it is good. Your M has the appropriate stronger drive gears to drive both pumps. Especially if you do not dead head the existing system into a closed hose of end of travel. Jim

 

[lenray]

Sounds like you bought a original add on Behlen power steering set up with a aftermarket vertical distributor drive. Does steering motor sit in front off steering post? Don't know why you want to do it but maybe like a fellow that done that that didn't use hydraulics on a SM. He just locked lever back on unit under tank and used outlet port on unit to Behlen unit and outlet to suction line to pump. That way pressure to pump was regulated. He bragged how easy it steered and used for a few years. Or does your tractor have hydraulic unit under fuel tank? Went to look at a tractor once advertised with power steering and be danged if they weren't running it from a belly pump that stopped when tractor did unless shifted to neutral and clutch pedal back out. Is picture some of the parts you have?

I have a rather heavy front mounted post pounder on the M...ALSO HAVE THAT LITTLE oil storage tank that is pictured.. Has the Lift All under the gas tank also....The post pounder is run off a PTO pump with its own oil storage tank...

 

[lenray]

View attachment 92312This diagram is very generic The black hoses are from the Live Pump, to the Priority Valve, then to the normal M valving
From the top of the priority valve reduced flow goes to the PS torque generator. The blue hoses return fluid to the reservoir, or supply oil to the pump. I will state that I think you need a local hydraulics/mechanic to assist with this project. Every installation I have seen is different. I will also say that the secondary pump you say you have can work well with the Steering if it is good. Your M has the appropriate stronger drive gears to drive both pumps. Especially if you do not dead head the existing system into a closed hose of end of travel. Jim

I was reluctant to run both pumps as some have said the cam wouldn't take running them both....You say it will run them both....That is good news....

 

[used red MN]

I was reluctant to run both pumps as some have said the cam wouldn't take running them both....You say it will run them both....That is good news....

If your not using the larger hydraulic pump to operate anything it takes minimal power to operate it so the cam gears are not in danger. Here is a link to a page in the Surplus Center catalog who you have been instructed to check with by others. Surplus Center Lincoln NE Call them and ask them what you need. I would say the $94 at the middle right is probably it. There is also a possibility that you also need a relief valve as shown at the lower right.

 

[lenray]

If your not using the larger hydraulic pump to operate anything it takes minimal power to operate it so the cam gears are not in danger. Here is a link to a page in the Surplus Center catalog who you have been instructed to check with by others. Surplus Center Lincoln NE Call them and ask them what you need. I would say the $94 at the middle right is probably it. There is also a possibility that you also need a relief valve as shown at the lower right.

Thank you for those tips----So are you saying that I can use the current hyd. pump that is on my Super M that supplies oil to the Lift All---Some say that is 12 gallon per minute. Get that flow Divider Priority valve and have it set to deliver about 3 gallon per minute to the power steering motor. The main hyd. pump on my M appears to be a Farmall pump. The pump that came with the Behlen steering unit is a M W. The small pump in front of the M W goes to the Behlen motor..I don't know if that smaller pump will hook up to the Farmall pump.... Thanks for your help....If you don't mind maybe you can add a little more.

 

[used red MN]

Thank you for those tips----So are you saying that I can use the current hyd. pump that is on my Super M that supplies oil to the Lift All---Some say that is 12 gallon per minute. Get that flow Divider Priority valve and have it set to deliver about 3 gallon per minute to the power steering motor. The main hyd. pump on my M appears to be a Farmall pump. The pump that came with the Behlen steering unit is a M W. The small pump in front of the M W goes to the Behlen motor..I don't know if that smaller pump will hook up to the Farmall pump.... Thanks for your help....If you don't mind maybe you can add a little more.

As long as you are controlling the flow and pressure to the steering by a priority valve etc. you should be able to use the stock Farmall live pump. If your adding the system with two pumps I would think you could remove the back one.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

As long as you are controlling the flow and pressure to the steering by a priority valve etc. you should be able to use the stock Farmall live pump. If your adding the system with two pumps I would think you could remove the back one.

Yes, it works just fine with the factory pump and a flow divider/priority valve. No need to complicate things with additional pumps, and you'll have to use the upright distributor to make it all fit. You won't have to touch the timing on the engine.

 

[lenray]

Yes, it works just fine with the factory pump and a flow divider/priority valve. No need to complicate things with additional pumps, and you'll have to use the upright distributor to make it all fit. You won't have to touch the timing on the engine.

Thank you for your good advice and continued patience...I am going to order that part from Lincoln Nebraska that used red MN showed me.......

 

[lenray]

If your not using the larger hydraulic pump to operate anything it takes minimal power to operate it so the cam gears are not in danger. Here is a link to a page in the Surplus Center catalog who you have been instructed to check with by others. Surplus Center Lincoln NE Call them and ask them what you need. I would say the $94 at the middle right is probably it. There is also a possibility that you also need a relief valve as shown at the lower right.

I have the steering motor and steering rods installed. Calling Surplus Center on Monday. My M has the Farmall original hyd. pump installed. On this original pump----NOT A M W... There are two hoses coming off the pump--One is a little larger diameter. Would the larger hose be the return and the smaller one be the supply????

 

[Janicholson]

I have the steering motor and steering rods installed. Calling Surplus Center on Monday. My M has the Farmall original hyd. pump installed. On this original pump----NOT A M W... There are two hoses coming off the pump--One is a little larger diameter. Would the larger hose be the return and the smaller one be the supply????

The larger hose is suction from the reservoir. the smaller hose is pressure out to the system. Jim