1954 Farmall Super C Revival

[ecudude]

Howdy, I recently got my grandfathers 1954 Super C back to my house. For the last 10 years, it has sat uncovered at my inlaws. I have since replaced all ignition components(regulator, coil, wires, plugs, cap, points, ballast), rebuilt the Zenith carb with a kit from Steiner, and got the starter rebuilt locally. It has a fresh battery with new, heavy cables. I've cleaned all the grounds well.

I can not get it to run. At one point I did have gas running out of the carb so I adjusted the floats and it is no longer doing this. I have verified spark at all 4 wires and have verified that the wires are in correct firing order(1342). I've noticed that when it is cranking, the distributor cap will move slightly in a circular motion but there is no way to snug it up.

This tractor used to sit for an entire year until we came to visit and I would throw a new battery in it and it would fire right up and run like a Singer sewing machine so this has me stumped.

Any ideas?

 

[old]

Howdy, I recently got my grandfathers 1954 Super C back to my house. For the last 10 years, it has sat uncovered at my inlaws. I have since replaced all ignition components(regulator, coil, wires, plugs, cap, points, ballast), rebuilt the Zenith carb with a kit from Steiner, and got the starter rebuilt locally. It has a fresh battery with new, heavy cables. I've cleaned all the grounds well.

I can not get it to run. At one point I did have gas running out of the carb so I adjusted the floats and it is no longer doing this. I have verified spark at all 4 wires and have verified that the wires are in correct firing order(1342). I've noticed that when it is cranking, the distributor cap will move slightly in a circular motion but there is no way to snug it up.

This tractor used to sit for an entire year until we came to visit and I would throw a new battery in it and it would fire right up and run like a Singer sewing machine so this has me stumped.

Any ideas?

View attachment 99840

If it sat that long good chance it has little to no compression due to stuck rings and maybe even stuck valves. I'd fill the cylinder with ATF and also pour as much ATF down the exhaust pipe till you saw it leaking some place and let it sit a week or so. Then I would pull all the plugs out and spin it over to clear the ATF out of the cylinder and then try to start it

 

[stdsch40]

The distributor should not be moving! Something is loose there. Re-check your ignition system as well as do what Old said. Did you pull the whole distributor out? Timing could be way off. After all that there are many more things worth checking; oil, coolant, gas, choke, flooded, etc. I have a C.

 

[ecudude]

Before we loaded it on the trailer, we pulled it around trying to roll start it. Exhaust flap was moving and you could hear the compression, just no spark at that time. I've also taken the valve cover off and watched each valve move up and down no issues there. Lot of crud/rust on top of the valvetrain so I might get that all cleaned up and change the oil out before I run it too long.

Spark is inconsistent and weak in my opinion, although I am used to 12v systems. It is still the original 6v. . With the distributor cap issue, its held on by two metal straps. I don't really see a way to tighten them unless I bend them further. With the cap off, I can pull the rotor button off and the plastic ring and trim ring falls out. I did move the ballast wire further into the case and that seemed to help seat the plastic ring better.

I think I'm not getting gas into the cylinders since the plugs aren't wet and they don't smell like gas. I've rebuilt this carb before in the field with a sheet of gasket paper and it ran great but now with a kit I can't get it to run at all. There shouldn't be anything in the intake manifold but I might pull it off and check, can't hurt.

 

[stdsch40]

Please describe more clearly about the distributor moving, thats not good. It should fit nice and snug, and not move at all once properly installed same with the rotor. Also, check the contact points that they ride nicely on the distributor cam opening and closeing with a VoltOhmMeter. Another thing...mouse nests in the air intake, make sure the engine gets air. The air filter (Donaldsn oil bath) has an oil pan at the bottom that maybe clogging air flow due to a mouse nest or solidified oil and dirt. Sounds to me that you did not replace the ignition components properly if distributor rotates, was it a hasty job?

 

[wwoodrow]

Howdy, I recently got my grandfathers 1954 Super C back to my house. For the last 10 years, it has sat uncovered at my inlaws. I have since replaced all ignition components(regulator, coil, wires, plugs, cap, points, ballast), rebuilt the Zenith carb with a kit from Steiner, and got the starter rebuilt locally. It has a fresh battery with new, heavy cables. I've cleaned all the grounds well.

I can not get it to run. At one point I did have gas running out of the carb so I adjusted the floats and it is no longer doing this. I have verified spark at all 4 wires and have verified that the wires are in correct firing order(1342). I've noticed that when it is cranking, the distributor cap will move slightly in a circular motion but there is no way to snug it up.

This tractor used to sit for an entire year until we came to visit and I would throw a new battery in it and it would fire right up and run like a Singer sewing machine so this has me stumped.

Any ideas?

View attachment 99840

Distributor cap should not move. This is most likely throwing ignition timing way off. Like others said, pull cap and determine why. Sounds like once you fix that issue you will be halfway home.

 

[old]

Before we loaded it on the trailer, we pulled it around trying to roll start it. Exhaust flap was moving and you could hear the compression, just no spark at that time. I've also taken the valve cover off and watched each valve move up and down no issues there. Lot of crud/rust on top of the valvetrain so I might get that all cleaned up and change the oil out before I run it too long.

Spark is inconsistent and weak in my opinion, although I am used to 12v systems. It is still the original 6v. . With the distributor cap issue, its held on by two metal straps. I don't really see a way to tighten them unless I bend them further. With the cap off, I can pull the rotor button off and the plastic ring and trim ring falls out. I did move the ballast wire further into the case and that seemed to help seat the plastic ring better.

I think I'm not getting gas into the cylinders since the plugs aren't wet and they don't smell like gas. I've rebuilt this carb before in the field with a sheet of gasket paper and it ran great but now with a kit I can't get it to run at all. There shouldn't be anything in the intake manifold but I might pull it off and check, can't hurt.

I don't know if this is correct for that tractor but many have a dust cover that sits under the distributor cap and if it need it and it is missing that will make th cap jump around like it is

 

[ecudude]

Ran back out there, distributor cap will not fully seat down unless I either 1. remove the dust cap or 2. remove the button. With either one of those removed, it fits perfectly. Obviously both are needed, but with both on there I can't fully seat the cap. With either one removed, the cap seats firmly in place and when cranking, the cap does not move at all.

I've cleaned the inside of the distributor housing but it almost seems like the rotor button is too tall? I bought a Napa ignition tune up kit that is made for this model.

Air cleaner is clean, I had to cut off the hose that feeds the carb because it was a mess. I'll get a new one ordered.

 

[wwoodrow]

Ran back out there, distributor cap will not fully seat down unless I either 1. remove the dust cap or 2. remove the button. With either one of those removed, it fits perfectly. Obviously both are needed, but with both on there I can't fully seat the cap. With either one removed, the cap seats firmly in place and when cranking, the cap does not move at all.

I've cleaned the inside of the distributor housing but it almost seems like the rotor button is too tall? I bought a Napa ignition tune up kit that is made for this model.

Air cleaner is clean, I had to cut off the hose that feeds the carb because it was a mess. I'll get a new one ordered.

Maybe they sold you the wrong kit.

 

[Jim.ME]

Are the locator nubs on the dust cap and distributor lined up in their proper notches?

 

[ecudude]

Locator nubs are lined up. The tab on the bottom(close to the engine) are lined up, it just won't fully seat down. If I remove the dust ring or the button it fits perfectly and does not move at all.

I've been sold wrong parts before. In my infinite wisdom, I threw away the old cap so I can't compare

Edit: It has to be wrong parts. With the dust ring off and the button on, the cap still won't seat fully. With the button off, cap seats nice and has no movement.

This is the cap I bought:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_S56918

and this is the ignition tune up kit I bought.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_S56919

Both "guaranteed" to fit.

Other news, the carb is still leaking. I've adjusted the floats a few times. Needle sticks closed intermittently. I've cleaned it with carb cleaner, blown air through it etc. There is no crud to keep it sticking. Thoughts?

 

[stdsch40]

Ran back out there, distributor cap will not fully seat down unless I either 1. remove the dust cap or 2. remove the button. With either one of those removed, it fits perfectly. Obviously both are needed, but with both on there I can't fully seat the cap. With either one removed, the cap seats firmly in place and when cranking, the cap does not move at all.

I've cleaned the inside of the distributor housing but it almost seems like the rotor button is too tall? I bought a Napa ignition tune up kit that is made for this model.

Air cleaner is clean, I had to cut off the hose that feeds the carb because it was a mess. I'll get a new one ordered.

You need a bit of force to push the rotor down on the shaft so it sits properly.

 

[stdsch40]

Locator nubs are lined up. The tab on the bottom(close to the engine) are lined up, it just won't fully seat down. If I remove the dust ring or the button it fits perfectly and does not move at all.

I've been sold wrong parts before. In my infinite wisdom, I threw away the old cap so I can't compare

Well that was a mistake. Next time you wont be tossing the old parts until you're sure the new ones work. Ha Ha Ha

 

[SinkholeRoad]

I have run into this problem before with replacement rotors. Once I had to tap the rotor down because it wasn’t seating all the way down the shaft. It was causing the same problem you are describing. Are you sure the rotor is all the way down?

 

[formerly ny bill]

Like others have said, cap should not move. Have you checked the rotation direction vs wire order? One is easy to find from the cap. I have heard of putting wires on, thinking rotation was one way when it was actually the other. not that anyone I know would do something like that...

 

[Jim Becker]

I think you have the wrong parts. This looks like the right tune-up kit:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_S56920

 

[ecudude]

Rotor rotates in CW direction so my under standing is that the cylinder firing order is 1342. Starting at top right on distributor should be 1, bottom right should be 3, bottom left should be 4, top left is 2.

Rotor was all the way pressed in, still nothing. I threw the cap in the drill press and with an end mill shaved down the button that the rotor rides on. I took maybe 1/16" off, cap fits perfectly now with dust ring and rotor on. No movement in the cap at all. Still the same color/size spark as before but at least the cap doesn't move.

Carb is still leaking gas out of the intake. My understanding is that the floats need to be adjusted because of unleaded gas. Is there a science to adjusting them or is it trial and error? Also the needle float sticks bad but there's nothing there for it to stick on. I've only had the carb in/out about 20 times already. I ordered this kit from Steiner. For whatever reason, I can't link the kit but it's the Economy Zenith Carburetor Repair Kit.



I've gone through the carb a few times, finding crud here and there. Left it sitting in a bucket of carb cleaner overnight. I feel like I'm missing something in there though. I've got spark but none of my plugs are wet with gas.

I think you have the wrong parts. This looks like the right tune-up kit:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_S56920

That shows it fitting 63 and up International.

 

[old]

Rotor rotates in CW direction so my under standing is that the cylinder firing order is 1342. Starting at top right on distributor should be 1, bottom right should be 3, bottom left should be 4, top left is 2.

Rotor was all the way pressed in, still nothing. I threw the cap in the drill press and with an end mill shaved down the button that the rotor rides on. I took maybe 1/16" off, cap fits perfectly now with dust ring and rotor on. No movement in the cap at all. Still the same color/size spark as before but at least the cap doesn't move.

Carb is still leaking gas out of the intake. My understanding is that the floats need to be adjusted because of unleaded gas. Is there a science to adjusting them or is it trial and error? Also the needle float sticks bad but there's nothing there for it to stick on. I've only had the carb in/out about 20 times already. I ordered this kit from Steiner. For whatever reason, I can't link the kit but it's the Economy Zenith Carburetor Repair Kit.



I've gone through the carb a few times, finding crud here and there. Left it sitting in a bucket of carb cleaner overnight. I feel like I'm missing something in there though. I've got spark but none of my plugs are wet with gas.




That shows it fitting 63 and up International.

Sounds like you have the wrong parts and trying to make a part fit that doesn't belong on the tractor is not the way to go you need to find the correct parts and oh by the way you NEVER throw the old parts away till you have the tractor running correctly. Many times the old parts while they may look old and wore out are better then any new part you can buy

 

[Mark Poss]

Try removing spark plugs and give a couple of squirts of motor oil with an oil can into each cylinder. There may not be enough compression from sitting for so long

 

[Fixingfarmer]

Couple things my 53 super c needed. When I purchased it it had an electronic ignition on it. I have used that to improve the loose distributor shaft issue on other tractors. The magnet is more forgiving it’s worked for 10 years in a ford here

I’ve had the loose plug issue when it showed up there wasn’t a single spark plug that was tight.

I added a screen to the sediment bowl sticking up into the tank as there was alot of rust coming out.

Has the distributor been out? Without grabbing it’s service manual from the shelf I can’t recall timing procedure

Does it run on ether? that might narrow things down a bit give it a sniff and see if it takes off