2040 - Dead Cylinder not Bad Injector or Timing…

[fixitforfree]

I had the injection pump rebuilt and installed new injectors on my father-in-laws 2040. I posted on here that it was missing bad and thought it was timing or bad injector. Turns out it is neither. I took the #1 injector back to my injector pump place that sold it to me and it tested good. I reapplied it to another cylinder and it worked fine. It turns out when I moved a known”good” injector from cylinder #2 to #1 it doesn’t work in the #1 cylinder either. I have an issue with the #1 cylinder I now realize. It’s either a piston or ring or valve that won’t allow compression to build causing my miss. How did this happen? This tractor was bought new in the family and has always cranked VERY quick. Never used oil. It’s just a good stout motor. But the day it quit and all this started it died like it ran out of fuel according to my father in law. It turns out something happened and the injection pump shaft sheared. The guy that rebuilt it said it could have been caused by crap in the fuel that stopped up an injector or just rust residue in the pump that we found. Now that I have it rebuilt with new injectors I realize I have a #1 cylinder issue. Help me understand what the root cause is. It’s hard for me to understand how an otherwise perfect running tractor for about 30 minutes quit like it ran out of fuel without any pops or bangs then I learn I have an injector pump shaft sheared in two pierces and a cylinder without compression. What the heck? First I need to actually check the #1 cylinder compression and will do that asap. Can’t I simply get a compression gauge with a rubber tapered end and put it in place of the #1 injector and crank the motor to check it? Thanks for any advice before I get down the wrong path.

 

[used red MN]

Can’t I simply get a compression gauge with a rubber tapered end and put it in place of the #1 injector and crank the motor to check it?

You can do that if you only want to confirm it has zero or near zero compression. A diesel engine should have somewhere above 300 and more like 350psi of compression or more. That kind of compression cannot be held reliably with a rubber tip. If you don’t really care what the real compression is in the other cylinders if you have to pull the head to repair something then go for it. Why did this happen? The machines made by men are imperfect therefore they break or “shat happens” however you want to look at it. Have you checked the valve lash?

 

[Fixingfarmer]

yep dropped valve is where I was going first as well. Usually there is an associated strange whoop whoop whoop sound if you pull the air cleaner filter. You will probably be diving into it to look around a bit.

 

[ET]

Pull the valve cover off and look for valve damage, reset the valve lash.

 

[fixitforfree]

I understand machines break but the fact the this tractor quit and broke the injector pump shaft and now I learn also has a compression issue caused by a broken piston, rings or valve issue is just too coincidental from my experience. If, for example, I learned it dropped a valve what in that event would also cause the injection pump shaft to shear?

 

[Fixingfarmer]

I’m betting you are fighting 2 issues that may have been caused by troubleshooting the perceived fuel issue. Loosening something up like the fuel pump repair guy says. Water in fuel was always the classic culprit on the fuel pump sheering and others have witnessed a pressure washer cooling it and it happening. I will admit I’m one of the worst to clean around them a bit not usually focusing intensely on it while running at idle thinking boy this is nice it’s a diesel and there’s no distributor here but I’ve always had hot pressure washer.

The longer answer is I don’t think you are going to go down the wrong path with this one like said above you are going to pull the valve cover and look and if you determine there’s a broken rocker or bent pushrod you pop those back on and see if it runs better.

this is assuming the fuel pump is now rebuilt and ready to rock? I think that’s what I’m getting out of the post.

1 if it runs better after that’s done great problem solved see if it runs and doesn’t snap the shaft a second time

1a if it runs but the same you get to tear it apart. Same answer if everything looks like it’s together time to pull the head before I do however I might rig it up so you can check a pattern on the suspect hole it sounds like that’s already been done but just to verify shoot all of them into a bucket if the lines won’t go that way buy one and bend it make sure everything is getting fuel. That’s kinda the only thing left before tearing into it. Helps to have a buddy or a wife turn the key. At this point it SOUNDS like you won’t find anything doing that but this quickly verifies the entire system is checked by YOU. Carefully. Do not do this on a newer high pressure common rail engine


2. if it snaps shaft again possibly need a second fuel pump opinion. And a supply fuel tank clean out

3 after that we get into long shots that will only be found by disassembly possibly a bore scope if you have one small enough but most fit down a spark plug hole not an injector hole. You might come at it 2 different ways but you will find the problem I wouldn’t worry too much at this point about it being the wrong direction just be glad there is a direction.

 

[fixitforfree]

I’m betting you are fighting 2 issues that may have been caused by troubleshooting the perceived fuel issue. Loosening something up like the fuel pump repair guy says. Water in fuel was always the classic culprit on the fuel pump sheering and others have witnessed a pressure washer cooling it and it happening. I will admit I’m one of the worst to clean around them a bit not usually focusing intensely on it while running at idle thinking boy this is nice it’s a diesel and there’s no distributor here but I’ve always had hot pressure washer.

The longer answer is I don’t think you are going to go down the wrong path with this one like said above you are going to pull the valve cover and look and if you determine there’s a broken rocker or bent pushrod you pop those back on and see if it runs better.

this is assuming the fuel pump is now rebuilt and ready to rock? I think that’s what I’m getting out of the post.

1 if it runs better after that’s done great problem solved see if it runs and doesn’t snap the shaft a second time

1a if it runs but the same you get to tear it apart. Same answer if everything looks like it’s together time to pull the head before I do however I might rig it up so you can check a pattern on the suspect hole it sounds like that’s already been done but just to verify shoot all of them into a bucket if the lines won’t go that way buy one and bend it make sure everything is getting fuel. That’s kinda the only thing left before tearing into it. Helps to have a buddy or a wife turn the key. At this point it SOUNDS like you won’t find anything doing that but this quickly verifies the entire system is checked by YOU. Carefully. Do not do this on a newer high pressure common rail engine


2. if it snaps shaft again possibly need a second fuel pump opinion. And a supply fuel tank clean out

3 after that we get into long shots that will only be found by disassembly possibly a bore scope if you have one small enough but most fit down a spark plug hole not an injector hole. You might come at it 2 different ways but you will find the problem I wouldn’t worry too much at this point about it being the wrong direction just be glad there is a direction.

Fixingfarmer, the injection pump has been completely gone through by a local reputable shop and the 3 injectors are new. The tank has been removed and cleaned. The fuel filter and all the lines were cleaned. There is no longer a fuel cleanliness issue nor a pump or injector issue. I removed the valve cover and everything looks perfect. It’s clean,l. No bent pushrods and no rocker arm issue. I took a very small scope and went down through the #1 injector hole and looked close at my piston and do not see any damage. Most definitely there is no obvious large crack or hole in the piston. I cannot see the valves with this scope though because of them being overhead and I can’t turn the scope up that direction after I feed it into the injector bore hole. I assume there could be a valve burnt bad or broken that isn’t seating. Only thing I know that is left is do is a compression check. I see an adapter available that goes in place of the injector that I can hook my gauge up to. I’ll buy that adapter and check compression in all 3 holes and see if I learn anything. This is frustrating.

 

[wore out]

"This is frustrating."

Stuff breaks, and I don't think you are going to "fix this one for free"!

If you are going to play with diesels you need to have some tools and be prepared to use them.

A compression test and checking the valve lift would go a long way towards figuring out what's going on, IMHO.

 

[fixitforfree]

"This is frustrating."

Stuff breaks, and I don't think you are going to "fix this one for free"!

If you are going to play with diesels you need to have some tools and be prepared to use them.

A compression test and checking the valve lift would go a long way towards figuring out what's going on, IMHO.

“fixitforfree” is not a reference to not spending money to fix my old junk. It’s a reference to being the guy my friends and family realize likes to work on things so they always want me to fix their stuff for free…. Thats exactly I’m working on this 2040. It is my 78 year old father-in-laws tractor. It’s been a great one. I have the tools and have had for years I just don’t have that “special” compression adapter to go in this John Deere pencil type injector hole. I will soon. The valve lift is fine on every hole that I attached. There is no valve issue as I described other than a possible burnt or broken valve. The compression check should tell me that. I’ll see soon.

 

[fdt860]

For the compression adapter, you take an old injector, remove the needle, grind bigger hole at the tip, and weld an adapter at the injector line.

 

[used red MN]

Fixingfarmer, the injection pump has been completely gone through by a local reputable shop and the 3 injectors are new. The tank has been removed and cleaned. The fuel filter and all the lines were cleaned. There is no longer a fuel cleanliness issue nor a pump or injector issue. I removed the valve cover and everything looks perfect. It’s clean,l. No bent pushrods and no rocker arm issue. I took a very small scope and went down through the #1 injector hole and looked close at my piston and do not see any damage. Most definitely there is no obvious large crack or hole in the piston. I cannot see the valves with this scope though because of them being overhead and I can’t turn the scope up that direction after I feed it into the injector bore hole. I assume there could be a valve burnt bad or broken that isn’t seating. Only thing I know that is left is do is a compression check. I see an adapter available that goes in place of the injector that I can hook my gauge up to. I’ll buy that adapter and check compression in all 3 holes and see if I learn anything. This is frustrating.

One thing you need to do in my opinion is to check for some amount of valve lash, at least on cylinder 1 that has the problem. As you or someone bumps the starter watch the valves for that cylinder. When a valve opens and then closes bump the starter one more time then check to see if the valve has at least some lash. Repeat with the other valve if that cylinder. This will assure you the valve train is not holding the valve open and dropping the compression.

 

[fixitforfree]

For the compression adapter, you take an old injector, remove the needle, grind bigger hole at the tip, and weld an adapter at the injector line.

That sure works I can see and would be easy to make.