3.152 Perkins Crank - OK or not?

[dfearday]

I am overhauling my Perkins engine. It had a lot of blow by, so I figured it would need rings and sleeves. When I took the pistons out, I noticed some damage to the crank. I think I know the answer, but can anybody look at these pictures and tell me if the crank would be OK with new Rod bearings, or do I have to have it machined? One looks ok but the other 2 are scored.

 

[CraigWis]

Has to be Machined It has metal transfer

 

[John Deere D]

I am overhauling my Perkins engine. It had a lot of blow by, so I figured it would need rings and sleeves. When I took the pistons out, I noticed some damage to the crank. I think I know the answer, but can anybody look at these pictures and tell me if the crank would be OK with new Rod bearings, or do I have to have it machined? One looks ok but the other 2 are scored.

With a Micrometer check the Journals....
As per the pictures,that Crankshaft is not usable as is........
Please share with the "YT" group your back ground,as in experience with internal combustion Engines.

Bob...Owner of a 1963 MF 35 3 cylinder Perkins Diesel since new.

 

[rustred]

That crank is done. Time for a rebuilt crank. Don’t even think u can turn down a diesel crank. That engine was run pretty much out of oil to do that much damage.

 

[stevieb49829]

Just so you know, not even the first picture is an OK journal. It should be shiny all the way across, and no lines whatsoever. Then you'd have to mic it to see if the wear is within oil clearance tolerances.

 

[John Deere D]

I am overhauling my Perkins engine. It had a lot of blow by, so I figured it would need rings and sleeves. When I took the pistons out, I noticed some damage to the crank. I think I know the answer, but can anybody look at these pictures and tell me if the crank would be OK with new Rod bearings, or do I have to have it machined? One looks ok but the other 2 are scored.

I've seen those Perkins Cranks so bad from previous owner syndrome!
The owners do not adjust the clutches.....then from extream doward force on the clutch pedal,the crankshft THRUST washers desintagrate. Then the Crank moves forward,allowing the counter weights to come in contact with the Oil pump inlet screen!
Shrapnel from the screan ENDS UP IN THE OIL LUMP.
What is the condition of the THRUST FACES of the Crankshaft ??

 

[rustred]

Should have shown the brgs pic’s as well , as I can picture what they look like. Lol.

 

[miangus]

I can't really tell from the pictures, but it appears it needs machine shop attention. I would take it to a local shop and have an expert take a look.

 

[dfearday]

Thank you all for the replies and suggestions. I do have a pic of one of the rod bearings.

In replies to each:

CraigWis: I figured it would need some help

John Deere D: I don't have a micrometer, only a dial caliper. As for my experience - this is the 1st one I have overhauled and went inside. I have done my share of work on the outsides of engines like: turbo replacement, changed the clutch on this tractor years ago, water pumps, swapped out an engine (5.7 hemi long block), plugs, wires, radiators, rebuilt transfer case, etc. Just nothing inside, so it is a learning experience. I looked at the thrush washers and they look OK (i believe), I can use my caliper to get thickness and get more pictures,

rustred - this tractor is only used for bush hogging or pulling a manure spreader - so trying to keep the costs down. I have seen bearing kits that go up to .03 oversized, so I am thinking that will be the cheaper option, getting it to a machine shop. Any cranks I have seen were over $1k for the crank alone. I am attaching the work rod bearing - it spun, you can tell.

Stevieb: got it.

I am having trouble finding information on the main bearings in it. What I know is that the rod bearings - 31131291 are std sized bearings. But the mains have numbers like 31122521 and 31122511 so I cannot tell if they are std or not. I also plan on new cylinder sleeves and rings, as the top ring for each piston was broke in multiple places. I am attaching a picture of the worst rod bearing.

Also, something a little strange about the tractor - the block is yellow and the rest of the tractor is red. Weren't the utility tractors yellow? Anyway, I found the following information on the block, but they numbers don't seem to follow what I have read, so in all of this I am trying to glean as much info as I can.

152UA
39523 DSL

NW 08 F
MC 25203

31 H6

 

[rustred]

You would be wasting your money reusing that crank without even a polish job. But as i said it’s had it’s day. Even the machinished would tell u by eye it’s done. U can’t measure a crank that looks like that. Look for a good used one would be the other option. Just as important is to check the Rod bores also once u have a doin brg. U don’t usually reuse the rod either. Or better yet look for a complete used engine. Perkins has so many variations of that engine u can’t keep up. and what is this engine in ? And what I would do is find a good used engine. Should be around 1K , to rebuild that one about 5 times or more.

 

[Jim.ME]

That crank needs to go to a machine shop to be polished or turned as needed, if it can be saved. Let them get all the bearings to fit the crank, as it won't be known until they check it. You should have them check the rods as well, given the looks of that bearing insert. It is not going to be cheap, but trying to fix it as you are talking isn't going to work and may do more damage and increase the cost to fix it right after it crashes again.

 

[John Deere D]

Thank you all for the replies and suggestions. I do have a pic of one of the rod bearings.

In replies to each:

CraigWis: I figured it would need some help

John Deere D: I don't have a micrometer, only a dial caliper. As for my experience - this is the 1st one I have overhauled and went inside. I have done my share of work on the outsides of engines like: turbo replacement, changed the clutch on this tractor years ago, water pumps, swapped out an engine (5.7 hemi long block), plugs, wires, radiators, rebuilt transfer case, etc. Just nothing inside, so it is a learning experience. I looked at the thrush washers and they look OK (i believe), I can use my caliper to get thickness and get more pictures,

rustred - this tractor is only used for bush hogging or pulling a manure spreader - so trying to keep the costs down. I have seen bearing kits that go up to .03 oversized, so I am thinking that will be the cheaper option, getting it to a machine shop. Any cranks I have seen were over $1k for the crank alone. I am attaching the work rod bearing - it spun, you can tell.

Stevieb: got it.

I am having trouble finding information on the main bearings in it. What I know is that the rod bearings - 31131291 are std sized bearings. But the mains have numbers like 31122521 and 31122511 so I cannot tell if they are std or not. I also plan on new cylinder sleeves and rings, as the top ring for each piston was broke in multiple places. I am attaching a picture of the worst rod bearing.

Also, something a little strange about the tractor - the block is yellow and the rest of the tractor is red. Weren't the utility tractors yellow? Anyway, I found the following information on the block, but they numbers don't seem to follow what I have read, so in all of this I am trying to glean as much info as I can.

152UA
39523 DSL

NW 08 F
MC 25203

31 H6

Every Engine, that I have overhauled,that had a BEARING "SPIN" with in the MAIN BEARING CAP's have always required a "line bore".
IE MF 88 Continental Diesel....IE...5000 HP Ingersoll Rand KVH 4 stroke Engine....IE 9000 hp CLARK 2 Stroke(Picture)
Every Engine, that I have overhauled,that had a BEARING "SPIN"with in the CONNECTING ROD bore, most often required a replacement connecting rod,unless the connecting rod was unavailable.
Only "ONCE" did I have a connecting ROD BORE resized. It was a $$$$$$'s thing. The Engine was a 4000 HP 4 stroke Nordberg.
You shall know what "UNDERSIZED " Bearing shells you require after the Machine shop checks the crank Journals,"AND" verifies what is available for bearing shell.

When the bearing shell "CRUSH" would no longer exist, on a 4000 HP Nordberg 4 stroke engine,(Pictures)and the Crank pin Journal was damaged ,I had the specific JOURNAL ground down undersized up to a maximum of 10% undersized.The Bearing shells were custom made by WASHINGTON IRON WORKS of SHERMAN TEXAS USA.

I'm not one to argue if the terminology is "UNDERSIZED BEARING SHELL" or "OVERSIZED BEARING SHELL". However,if anyone has ever sat the Stationary Engineers EXAMS,and or DIESEL ENGINE EXAMS...the answer is usually "UNDERSIZED SHELL"

 

[miangus]

This site sells a complete rebuild kit with a new crank. If you have any questions about the correct kit, call and talk with them. Sounds like you are a novice to the engine building craft and need an on-site adviser. Location? Maybe a YT-er lives nearby. Any stockcar or drag racers in the neighborhood? That is a common engine maybe you could source a used or rebuilt engine. Years ago, I bought a rebuild 203 from a Perkins dealer in Detroit cheaper than the cost of a new crank.

 

[dfearday]

Thanks for the advice and help gents. I live in Robinson, IL (South-Eastern IL) so if there is anybody close just itching to put together a perkins engine - let me know, but in a pinch I do have some Mechanical friends that would help me out. I was pretty sure something had to be done with the crank when I pulled it apart, just wanted to make sure which is why i asked on here. And there is no way I am going to put it back in like it is.

So, it was suggested to maybe buy a new crank, which seems like my best option (that way I won't have to worry about oversized bearings or supersized bearing shells or whatever.... Just kidding)... So I am going to get a new crank - just seeing which is the more economical option (as a kit or separately).

How can I tell if they are cast or chrome sleeves for the kit?

And I am still curious about the serial number - all of the other serial numbers I have seen have had more digits in them. Am I correct that the
152UA 39523 DSL is the serial number? and I would use the 39523 for reference when ordering parts?

 

[Danny Prosser]

I have a 230 MF Diesel and the oil pump went and spun a rod bearing. The journals all were a little eat up. I took it to a machine shop that was recommended to me. He turned the mains .10 and the rods .20 and checked the rods and everything. I've put it back together but haven't put it back on the tractor and got it going yet. That's one of my first tractor jobs after I retire next Monday. Then I've got a Jubilee and a 3000 to do.

 

[John Deere D]

Thanks for the advice and help gents. I live in Robinson, IL (South-Eastern IL) so if there is anybody close just itching to put together a perkins engine - let me know, but in a pinch I do have some Mechanical friends that would help me out. I was pretty sure something had to be done with the crank when I pulled it apart, just wanted to make sure which is why i asked on here. And there is no way I am going to put it back in like it is.

So, it was suggested to maybe buy a new crank, which seems like my best option (that way I won't have to worry about oversized bearings or supersized bearing shells or whatever.... Just kidding)... So I am going to get a new crank - just seeing which is the more economical option (as a kit or separately).

How can I tell if they are cast or chrome sleeves for the kit?

And I am still curious about the serial number - all of the other serial numbers I have seen have had more digits in them. Am I correct that the
152UA 39523 DSL is the serial number? and I would use the 39523 for reference when ordering parts?

Here is a picture, of the Engine Serial #...... 1963 MF 35 3 cylinder "Perkins Diesel Engine". The MF Service Manual indicates the Engines by Serial # as to when Engines had CHROME dry Sleeves,and when Engines had non CHROME dry sleeves. My service manual, has been lent out at this time..... If you, have the option on your computer to enlarge these pics....then you shall see my above comments...as to SERIAL # and the composition of dry, liners used/installed.
I have reason to believe, originally, Perkins Diesel A3.152 Engines that had Chrome dry sleeves were up graded to a different composition of a dry sleeve.
The counter bores, that the sleeves bottom out into, are NOT the same DEPTH for all SLEEVES!!!!
To make this an ever greater challenge,the counter bores may have been machined to accept a sleeve different than the sleeve counter bore that left the factory.!!!!! ????????.
Before you start spending your $$$$$'s it would be wise to know the depth of the counter bores.
FIRST...... I would measure the INSIDE DIAMETER of all sleeve,and verify if indeed the sleeves require replacing,given your budget.
MEASURE both PARALLEL and at RIGHT ANGELS to the CRANKSHAFT....
Take a Measurement at a point the top ring travel stops upward movement...then halfway down the liner and at the bottom of travel. You are checking for SLEEVE TAPPER as well as oversized wear.
It's your engine,your $$$$'s. Do as you decide.

 

[dfearday]

JD: I looked at the sleeves and found some visual damage - most of the engine overhaul kits come with sleeves - so it looks like new sleeves. I also did a price comparison of machining the crank with oversized bearings vs getting a new crank and regular bearings. They are about the same - so I will get a kit with a new crank and bearings in it.

Here is the kicker about the engine: Tractor is a red MF35, engine is yellow - so not the original engine. The serial number of the engine is 152UA39523DSL. This number does not relate to an MF35's engine, I have been hitting walls trying it figure it out. I finally watched a video and found that this engine is probably out of an MF135 (maybe 35x) but I figured it out because the pistons are dished - meaning direct injection. And the serial number lines up with MF135s. Meaning it is an AD3.152. Still not exactly sure what the DSL in the serial number means. I know D=direct, and L=Lip but not sure about the S in the middle.

This is getting a bit more expensive than I wanted - but still cheaper than a new tractor.

 

[John Deere D]

JD: I looked at the sleeves and found some visual damage - most of the engine overhaul kits come with sleeves - so it looks like new sleeves. I also did a price comparison of machining the crank with oversized bearings vs getting a new crank and regular bearings. They are about the same - so I will get a kit with a new crank and bearings in it.

Here is the kicker about the engine: Tractor is a red MF35, engine is yellow - so not the original engine. The serial number of the engine is 152UA39523DSL. This number does not relate to an MF35's engine, I have been hitting walls trying it figure it out. I finally watched a video and found that this engine is probably out of an MF135 (maybe 35x) but I figured it out because the pistons are dished - meaning direct injection. And the serial number lines up with MF135s. Meaning it is an AD3.152. Still not exactly sure what the DSL in the serial number means. I know D=direct, and L=Lip but not sure about the S in the middle.

This is getting a bit more expensive than I wanted - but still cheaper than a new tractor.

The HEAD on a Perkins A3.152 Diesel is different than the head on a Perkins AD3.152 Diesel.
eg:
The Perkins A3.152 Diesel BLOCK has less HEAD STUDS than the Perkins AD3.152 Diesel BLOCK.
Sooooooo the Perkins A3.152 Diesel HEAD should not fit on a Perkins AD3.152 Diesel BLOCK.

To the best of my knowledge (I own a 1963 MF 35 X) a MF 35 X Diesel has a Perkins A3.152, and was called a MF 35 X, as the FUEL PUMP was recalibrated to inJect more fuel sooner (before Top Dead center) into the PRECOMBUSTION CUP,as well as the FUEL NOZZELS were redesigned.
The engine Fuel pump was set to deliver a higher engine RPM but the tramsmission was redesigned to still have the stanrandart PTO of 540 RPM with a higher Engine RPM than the original MF 35 3 cylinder Perkins A3.152 .
Untill you post a picture of the HEAD and Engine Block I can NOT verify if you indeed have a Perkins AD3.152 or a A3.152

To clear up some possible misinformation.......Please submit pictures of the Engine BLOCK you have.

I also have reason to believe the AD3.152 Perkins Crankshaft may have a totally different machined Journal as per the location of the updated REAR MECHANICAL CRANKSHAFT OIL SEAL that is different than the Perkins A3.152 Crankshaft Seal.....

 

[dfearday]

Here are the pictures.

 

[John Deere D]

Pictures, Possibly a Perkins AD3.152 Diesel Engine..As NO per-combustion chamber definitely NOT a Perkins diesel A3.152
ALSO, head is drilled to facilitate MORE ENGINE block HEAD STUDS

There are other designations of the 3 cylinder Perkins Engine that I have never see,other than the AD3.152 & the A3.152

I have only ever seen that head on a MF 135 in our farming community...never on a FACTORY built MF 35 in our Farming community.
NOW... I have seen that HEAD and ENGINE BLOCK on a MF 35 as the owner could not obtain a Perkins A3.152 so he installed a Perkins AD3.152 in his MF.
I also have reason to believe the AD3.152 Perkins Crankshaft may have a totally different machined Journal as per the location of the updated REAR MECHANICAL CRANKSHAFT OIL SEAL that is different than the Perkins A3.152 Crankshaft Seal.....
From you pictures you seem to have a Perkins AD3.152 Diesel Engine ,and again there are NO Combustion Chambers in you Engine Head like a Perkins A3.152