3 point wont lift. I know why. cracked lift cylinder. How? Any suggestions?

[sroy123]

Hi,


ran
My 3 point lift stopped working the other day on my Massey 165. 1968 non multipower 6 speed tractor. Ran good since I was in there last time. Last time I made no adjustments. Put new rings on the lift piston and did a hone job to the cylinder housing. That was in the winter sometime last year.



I pulled the lift cover and to my surprise the lift cover cylinder housing was cracked (see the picture. Before removing the cover, I could see the draft control rod (spring guide/rod?) through the right inspection cover. The spring was in the belly. The rod was just dangling there.



The lift cylinder housing is cracked at the bottom of the casting effectively two studs were holding broken iron chunks. This caused a pressure bypass situation because the bottom of the housing was not flush with the lift cover. Oil pressure was blowing past the o-ring because it didn’t have sealing surfaces.

I removed the piston from the housing and the housing bore looks perfect. So, it wasn’t caused from excessive pressure. It got smacked somehow. I don’t see any smack marks. It takes a lot to break cast iron. What smacked the housing? The piston rod appears to be in its proper location.

Dry fitting before disassembly of the broken cylinder housing. I reinstalled the draft lever rod (spring guide/rod) and spring into the hole in the back to where it came from. To my surprise it went right into the hole. Moving the lift arms up (manually) I find that the lever does not want to stay in the bracket hole and pops back out. So not seeing any adjustment on this. I welded a very thick washer on it to prevent it from dislodging. See the picture. All rollers and the cams appeared to be ok.

I also noticed the position rod (spring guide/rod) wanting to become dislodged. With that I adjusted the back stop (circled) and added a jam nut to prevent the screw from backing out. I adjusted the back stop enough where I was sure the rod wouldn’t become dislodged.

In hindsight I should have waited to weld the washer and make the adjustments until I had the new cylinder assy back in position.

I looked about everywhere for info on this. Internet, my manual, forums. I have a factory manual. A real one. In this situation it is about worthless.

I ordered another lift cylinder housing (3-1/8 bore)



So my questions are as follows.

• Why are these position and draft rods coming out of the holes in the bracket? Nothing seems to be bent or worn excessively. Maybe after I replace the cracked ad broken cylinder housing the rods will stick through the bracket more? Everything was dry fit while I wait for my parts to arrive. That means the broken housing is still in place.
• What is that stop for the back of the housing? Is there a proper measurement for that? Nothing in the manual.
• Anyone have an idea what happened? What let go causing the damage? I would hate to install a $130 lift cylinder housing and have it get smashed also.

Thank you. Hopefully someone has something. I am somewhat at a loss.

 

[Harry in Ky]

I can't answer your questions about why the linkage doesn't stay in place as it did before. Maybe the new cylinder being bolted down with all four studs will help there. I do however, strongly suggest while you're "ordering and replacing" you also replace the lift pump relief valve. Not very expensive (as compared to all the rest of what you're doing) and cheap insurance against a repeat. I won't say that was your original problem, but I know from experience that a non functioning relief valve can (and will) cause similar results. That lift pump doesn't generate much volume but if left unchecked it will cause things to break.

 

[sroy123]

That makes me think a little. I wonder it that adjustment in the back is for the 3 point lift travel. If it is out of adjustment the piston continues to push at the end of its throw causing the piston to bottom out and to continue to push at 2800 psi on the housing. no relief and it fractured the base where it attached to the lid. I am just thinking out loud. I haven't checked. I do know I didn't see any hammer marks on the housing. If something hit I should see something.

 

[Harry in Ky]

My point concerning the relief valve is this. Regardless of linkage adjustments should the lift system ever reach maximum stroke the relief valve should open and keep the mechanical parts from breaking. Whenever I see or hear of those parts breaking (for no apparent reason) that relief valve instantly becomes suspect.

 

[sroy123]

That makes me think a little. I wonder it that adjustment in the back is for the 3 point lift travel. If it is out of adjustment the piston continues to push at the end of its throw causing the piston to bottom out and to continue to push at 2800 psi on the housing. no relief and it fractured the base where it attached to the lid. I am just thinking out loud. I haven't checked. I do know I didn't see any hammer marks on the housing. If something hit I should see something.

I can't answer your questions about why the linkage doesn't stay in place as it did before. Maybe the new cylinder being bolted down with all four studs will help there. I do however, strongly suggest while you're "ordering and replacing" you also replace the lift pump relief valve. Not very expensive (as compared to all the rest of what you're doing) and cheap insurance against a repeat. I won't say that was your original problem, but I know from experience that a non functioning relief valve can (and will) cause similar results. That lift pump doesn't generate much volume but if left unchecked it will cause things

My point concerning the relief valve is this. Regardless of linkage adjustments should the lift system ever reach maximum stroke the relief valve should open and keep the mechanical parts from breaking. Whenever I see or hear of those parts breaking (for no apparent reason) that relief valve instantly becomes suspect.

Yeah. exactly. I bet the valve isn't working. I need to figure out the adjustment for the max stroke as well. yeah man. I bet that's it. It takes a lot of force to break that casting.

 

[damn1981]

If it runs against relief housings will break every time even if relief valve is good it's a 2500 pound relief can take out pump also it's all about the adjustment before and after you install cover
Get yourself an IT Manual, or more than likely someone here as a download

 

[sroy123]

I found an old Massey Mechanic (30 years) in my small county in Tennessee. I have the new lift cylinder, pressure relief valve and seals. I am going to take him the lift cover tomorrow. I seem to be having a hard time aligning the position and draft levers up with the rollers as I drop the cylinder into place. Last time I removed the cover I put this together wrong and I had to take it apart again.

I want to be sure it's correct along with the two clearances for the position and draft .(000-.002 between the dashpot and levers using the special tool) I also want him to adjust that stop in the back. He said he could get to it in a few days and it would be about $50. It's worth it!


I thought when I bought the Factory Manual that would be what I needed. So far it has been worthless both times I have opened it up.

I thought the adjustment after the cover was installed was activating the pump on and off. What other adjustments are there? It's odd that all of a sudden it is out of adjustment and I break the cylinder housing.

What do you mean by "If it runs against relief housings will break every time" is this the .000-.002 clearance to the dashpot?

thanks for the reply.

 

[damn1981]

It means that if cover is not adjusted correctly when you install it and pull levers up to top it should at some point pump should neutralize
In non pumping mode, but of levers are not adjusted right it will go all the way to the top and be in constant pump which means your relief valve is going off which means pump just keeps pumping and all that pressure Is against dogbone and cover non stop so after awhile the weakest part breaks
On newer machines with a 3000 psi relief valve I have replaced literally no joke hundreds of those covers were all industrial machines
These guys put 1000 or more hours a year on them
So everything wears out so when bushing in cover wear linkage gets out of adjustment so it goes into constant pump
That's the reason They went to thicker housings later on. they still broke but not as often
So after everything is put together and cover is on arms should go up to top then you use transport stop to adjust arms so they are - 1/4 or more down from top then pump will neutralize
Your cover is the easiest one to adjust with the dash pot assembly