51’ Super C Piston Rings

LSC123

New User
My grandpas old 51’ Super C started knocking and was parked roughly 20 years ago because of wear (It was a dairy farm tractor). I’m going to tear into it and replace main and rod bearing and a couple other things. But I do have a question, I have no idea what the inside of the motor looks like but it had good oil pressure and ran great before parked so I was wondering if it’s normal to just replace the rings because I don’t plan on doing piston and sleeve job. I may need to get the crankshaft turned if it looks bad but hopefully I can just put standard size main bearings in it and not have to get it machined. Just wondering about the rings, thank you.
 
My grandpas old 51’ Super C started knocking and was parked roughly 20 years ago because of wear (It was a dairy farm tractor). I’m going to tear into it and replace main and rod bearing and a couple other things. But I do have a question, I have no idea what the inside of the motor looks like but it had good oil pressure and ran great before parked so I was wondering if it’s normal to just replace the rings because I don’t plan on doing piston and sleeve job. I may need to get the crankshaft turned if it looks bad but hopefully I can just put standard size main bearings in it and not have to get it machined. Just wondering about the rings, thank you.
If if was parked because it was "knocking" I would not expect to "repair" it by rolling in new bearing inserts.

A "knock" severe enough to get it "parked" could well mean some nasty wear on one or more crankshaft bearing journals and very likely a "spun" bearing insert.

IF you truly want to revive it you need to be prepared to spend a significant amount of $$$.

Take it apart and find out the source of the knock and have a look at the top area of the sleeves to see if there is significant wear indicated by a "ridge" above top ring travel.

Post back with what you find.
 
its useless asking first, tear the engine down then the story is at your eyes and hands. then ask questions.
knocking means u have excessive crank clearance in a brg. and by the time it starts knocking it requires more than brgs. crankshaft grind or replace time. from your post u have no engine experience at all. and you will not learn it here in a couple of asking posts, impossible ! thats why i said ask as you get into it.
 
there was a guy here who wanted info on doing rings and such. then a person types out pages for him , then he gets pizzed off cause he had no clue what to do, and and went with the ATF route recommended by his buddie the ATF king of knowing nothing about rebuilding an engine. told everyone to fill up the exhaust pipe with ATF. then let it sit a week. then it will be loose and ready to run. one of the biggest scam deals for a person that wants to learn to overhaul and engine from scratch. you gotta start someplace if your mechanically inclined wanting to do your own work. just ask. maybe you can tell me how worn out metal from wear is replaced by oil ? ... cause i never have run into such a thing in my lifetime. the cylinders wear on a taper, top always has more wear than the bottom of the cylinder, how will atf fix that ? impossible! u need to do a rebore on the engine. same with the crank, it has to be reground to make it round again. the crank wears egg shaped. and so the story goes moving parts wear. like kenny rogers would say u wanna the play the game u goota play it right.
 
My grandpas old 51’ Super C started knocking and was parked roughly 20 years ago because of wear (It was a dairy farm tractor). I’m going to tear into it and replace main and rod bearing and a couple other things. But I do have a question, I have no idea what the inside of the motor looks like but it had good oil pressure and ran great before parked so I was wondering if it’s normal to just replace the rings because I don’t plan on doing piston and sleeve job. I may need to get the crankshaft turned if it looks bad but hopefully I can just put standard size main bearings in it and not have to get it machined. Just wondering about the rings, thank you.
As said, 99.9% sure you will have to have the crank turned. Odds are pretty strong that you will have to pull the motor and turn it upside down to take the crank out. You will need some way to lift the motor out and something to hold it or put it upside down to remove the crankshaft. It is possible to replace the rings if the bore isn't worn too much. With the head off, run your fingernail down from the top and feel for a ring groove. From here it depends what you are going to do with it. Do you just want it to run and putter around with or are you going to farm 100 acres with it? A ridge reamer will take the ridge out and hone the cylinder walls really good. You should have the head checked and valves ground. Put it back together and it will run, might smoke a little and be a little short on power but it will work for shows and parade or just driving around. Rereading your post, ( it ran great when it was parked), it should run again if you only have the crank turned and new bearings. It all depends how deep your pockets are! Some people think the only way to get it to run is to replace everything with new parts, do it right or don't do it at all. A super C is what, a $1500 to $2500 dollar tractor depending on tire condition. Lots of old tractor out there with 2 or 3 times what it's worth in repairs to make it new again. I went thru the motor on my Oliver 1550 gas a couple of years ago, 4 pistons had broken rings and a slight grove cut vertically in the cylinder walls. To do it right, it should have had new sleeves and pistons. All I use it for is tractor rides and shows and did 2 or 3 plow days with it. I ran a ridge reamer in the cylinders and honed the heck out of the cylinders, had the valves ground and put it back together. It runs great, uses no oil and does everything I want it to do and still had close to $1500 in it not counting my time. It's up to you, it depends what you are going to do with it and how much money you want/have to put into it. The first thing to do is drop the oil pan, pull the rod and main caps and see just what you have and go from there. Flame away, I've been burned before and survived! Chris
 
My grandpas old 51’ Super C started knocking and was parked roughly 20 years ago because of wear (It was a dairy farm tractor). I’m going to tear into it and replace main and rod bearing and a couple other things. But I do have a question, I have no idea what the inside of the motor looks like but it had good oil pressure and ran great before parked so I was wondering if it’s normal to just replace the rings because I don’t plan on doing piston and sleeve job. I may need to get the crankshaft turned if it looks bad but hopefully I can just put standard size main bearings in it and not have to get it machined. Just wondering about the rings, thank you.
It's odd that it had good oil pressure, if it was knocking.
 
As said, 99.9% sure you will have to have the crank turned. Odds are pretty strong that you will have to pull the motor and turn it upside down to take the crank out. You will need some way to lift the motor out and something to hold it or put it upside down to remove the crankshaft. It is possible to replace the rings if the bore isn't worn too much. With the head off, run your fingernail down from the top and feel for a ring groove. From here it depends what you are going to do with it. Do you just want it to run and putter around with or are you going to farm 100 acres with it? A ridge reamer will take the ridge out and hone the cylinder walls really good. You should have the head checked and valves ground. Put it back together and it will run, might smoke a little and be a little short on power but it will work for shows and parade or just driving around. Rereading your post, ( it ran great when it was parked), it should run again if you only have the crank turned and new bearings. It all depends how deep your pockets are! Some people think the only way to get it to run is to replace everything with new parts, do it right or don't do it at all. A super C is what, a $1500 to $2500 dollar tractor depending on tire condition. Lots of old tractor out there with 2 or 3 times what it's worth in repairs to make it new again. I went thru the motor on my Oliver 1550 gas a couple of years ago, 4 pistons had broken rings and a slight grove cut vertically in the cylinder walls. To do it right, it should have had new sleeves and pistons. All I use it for is tractor rides and shows and did 2 or 3 plow days with it. I ran a ridge reamer in the cylinders and honed the heck out of the cylinders, had the valves ground and put it back together. It runs great, uses no oil and does everything I want it to do and still had close to $1500 in it not counting my time. It's up to you, it depends what you are going to do with it and how much money you want/have to put into it. The first thing to do is drop the oil pan, pull the rod and main caps and see just what you have and go from there. Flame away, I've been burned before and survived! Chris
Yes to this response and rust reds. The engine is sleeved, so new sleeves if they have more than about .003 just under the ridge. Jim
 
The other thing to remember is that those are a wet sleeve engine. After setting for 20 years, I'll bet that the o-rings on the sleeves will start leaking if he gets the engine running. New sleeves and pistons will add around $400 to his cost but I would say that it's worth it to help elinate a second tear down.
 
My grandpas old 51’ Super C started knocking and was parked roughly 20 years ago because of wear (It was a dairy farm tractor). I’m going to tear into it and replace main and rod bearing and a couple other things. But I do have a question, I have no idea what the inside of the motor looks like but it had good oil pressure and ran great before parked so I was wondering if it’s normal to just replace the rings because I don’t plan on doing piston and sleeve job. I may need to get the crankshaft turned if it looks bad but hopefully I can just put standard size main bearings in it and not have to get it machined. Just wondering about the rings, thank you.
Assuming it is loose, before I "tear into" it, I would at least squirt some oil in the cylinders and see what the compression is.
 
What’s your budget ?
without doing shop manual project rebuild , your waisting time and money . Everthing in the engine to be gone thru and measured to correct.
I f you don’t measure your guessing.
 
Good oil pressure with a rod flopping around is not so far fetched. Unless the crank is cross-drilled, the only hole is plugged by the con rod as the crank is pushing it up. As it pulls the rod down, the hole is on the bottom and blocked off by the cap.
I had a Cat 3306 lose a rod, where the bearing ( or the slivers of it) was spinning in the rod and around the crank. The oil pressure gauge never indicated that there was the slightest thing wrong with that motor.
 
I don’t want to wam-bam you with another.. you gotta do this or that or it will never be right .. when all you really asked about was if a re-ring job has any merit. In my opinion one of the most important replies here was by Willow Lane, a lot of consideration should be given to those orings on the wet sleeves or you will very likely be revisiting this again. There is a possibility that this may be why the rod bearing went out in the first place, coolant in the oil. Just a ring job can work, but it is just a matter of how much wear the engine has in the cylinders. Also as mentioned the intended use of the machine weighs in as well.
 
I guess I'd spend some time and get it running before I started tearing it down. Squirt some oil in the cylinders. Remove the valve cover and make sure the valves are free. Roll it over by hand a few times before you start it. Then fire it up. Determine if it is for sure a rod knock. Or a main bearing rumble. Or a knock from a broken flywheel. Or whatever else might cause a knock. Then I'd make my plan of attack.
 
Flywheels have been known to get loose & telegraph
noise up to the engine area. Not likely, but possible.
Also pressure plate/ clutch components.
Jim
 
After you find the noise problem,you'll just have to see how bad the cylinders are. Back in the day we rerung a lot of gas burner small tractors. For just playing around,a small amount of work yes you may be able to hone it and rering it. I have done complete rebuilds for working tractors and rerung paraided tractors. It just depends how much you can and will spend. I would rather see you add some oil and drive it instead of dropping 1000.00 in it and then selling it for scrap because it needs another grand.
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top