584 IH Transmission/Clutch

wwoodrow

Member
Forgive me for starting a new thread about the previous "584 IH hydraulic oil " I feel I need to start anew as I have done more inspection. History of tractor is I have owned it for about 17 years of its 40 year life. Its primary job has been to carry hay on a 500 yard round trip from haybarn to pasture about twice a week for 5 or 6 months of the year. It has had VERY occasional use to bush hog a small area and disk small food plots. The round trip to put out hay is mostly flat ground. It has always had some hydraulic leaks and I top it up and have changed it out completely. I have never had a problem until now. We had storm damage at my house so I filled the tranny up according to owners manual and drove it the 7 miles to my house to clean up from two uprooted trees down hill in my yard. After about the second day of the cleaning up I noticed the tractor did not want to pull the hill in my yard. At this point I asked many of you for advice and appreciate all who commented. Yesterday I pulled the inspection plate that has about 10 bolts and promptly took a partial bath in at least half a gallon of new trans fluid. The tractor continued to leak from the bottom of a seal that a shaft [ input ???? ] runs through. I let the fluid drain overnight and replaced the cover this morning. I tested the tractor on the hill under similar conditions and it did not hesitate . I am theorizing that the dipstick has been broken off and repaired [ upon inspection it may be brazed just under the cap and if so expertly done ] I think I can verify whether it is too short if anyone can tell me whether that seal should be immersed in oil. I have done some careful measuring and it appears that oil is at least an inch or two over the top of the seal when the dipstick shows full. I will say that if my theory is correct that this tractor has survived many " overfills "over the last 17 years. So, am I wishing with false hope that I have figured it out or am I going to be making a 100 mile round trip to let a former IH dealer mechanic split and repair this clutch /seal ,etc. ?? Thanks for any input as I am needing the tractor to disk a dove field soon.
 
Forgive me for starting a new thread about the previous "584 IH hydraulic oil " I feel I need to start anew as I have done more inspection. History of tractor is I have owned it for about 17 years of its 40 year life. Its primary job has been to carry hay on a 500 yard round trip from haybarn to pasture about twice a week for 5 or 6 months of the year. It has had VERY occasional use to bush hog a small area and disk small food plots. The round trip to put out hay is mostly flat ground. It has always had some hydraulic leaks and I top it up and have changed it out completely. I have never had a problem until now. We had storm damage at my house so I filled the tranny up according to owners manual and drove it the 7 miles to my house to clean up from two uprooted trees down hill in my yard. After about the second day of the cleaning up I noticed the tractor did not want to pull the hill in my yard. At this point I asked many of you for advice and appreciate all who commented. Yesterday I pulled the inspection plate that has about 10 bolts and promptly took a partial bath in at least half a gallon of new trans fluid. The tractor continued to leak from the bottom of a seal that a shaft [ input ???? ] runs through. I let the fluid drain overnight and replaced the cover this morning. I tested the tractor on the hill under similar conditions and it did not hesitate . I am theorizing that the dipstick has been broken off and repaired [ upon inspection it may be brazed just under the cap and if so expertly done ] I think I can verify whether it is too short if anyone can tell me whether that seal should be immersed in oil. I have done some careful measuring and it appears that oil is at least an inch or two over the top of the seal when the dipstick shows full. I will say that if my theory is correct that this tractor has survived many " overfills "over the last 17 years. So, am I wishing with false hope that I have figured it out or am I going to be making a 100 mile round trip to let a former IH dealer mechanic split and repair this clutch /seal ,etc. ?? Thanks for any input as I am needing the tractor to disk a dove field soon.
Well that’s not the bell housing inspection plate, inspection plate only has 2 bolts. So what you just did was dump the trans oil
 
Forgive me for starting a new thread about the previous "584 IH hydraulic oil " I feel I need to start anew as I have done more inspection. History of tractor is I have owned it for about 17 years of its 40 year life. Its primary job has been to carry hay on a 500 yard round trip from haybarn to pasture about twice a week for 5 or 6 months of the year. It has had VERY occasional use to bush hog a small area and disk small food plots. The round trip to put out hay is mostly flat ground. It has always had some hydraulic leaks and I top it up and have changed it out completely. I have never had a problem until now. We had storm damage at my house so I filled the tranny up according to owners manual and drove it the 7 miles to my house to clean up from two uprooted trees down hill in my yard. After about the second day of the cleaning up I noticed the tractor did not want to pull the hill in my yard. At this point I asked many of you for advice and appreciate all who commented. Yesterday I pulled the inspection plate that has about 10 bolts and promptly took a partial bath in at least half a gallon of new trans fluid. The tractor continued to leak from the bottom of a seal that a shaft [ input ???? ] runs through. I let the fluid drain overnight and replaced the cover this morning. I tested the tractor on the hill under similar conditions and it did not hesitate . I am theorizing that the dipstick has been broken off and repaired [ upon inspection it may be brazed just under the cap and if so expertly done ] I think I can verify whether it is too short if anyone can tell me whether that seal should be immersed in oil. I have done some careful measuring and it appears that oil is at least an inch or two over the top of the seal when the dipstick shows full. I will say that if my theory is correct that this tractor has survived many " overfills "over the last 17 years. So, am I wishing with false hope that I have figured it out or am I going to be making a 100 mile round trip to let a former IH dealer mechanic split and repair this clutch /seal ,etc. ?? Thanks for any input as I am needing the tractor to disk a dove field soon.
The link to diagram
From this page you need to select Drive train, then Clutch Housing. The 10 bolt plate I see should have quantities of oil held in place. the front 2 bolt cover should be dry. Leaking seals are needing replaced. Oil on the clutch disc will do what you have discovered. Do not operate the tractor with the transmission dry!!! Jim
 
Well that’s not the bell housing inspection plate, inspection plate only has 2 bolts. So what you just did was dump the trans oil
And frankly you’re fixated on overfill for some reason, I’ve seen these tractors flywheels and be saturated with oil and the clutch still be fine. If your seal is leaking you’ll have drips at the real inspection plate , easy to see. I have a 574 and a 585, I run them overfilled by choice since I’ve had them, the 574 for over 50 years. Plus I work on them and have only replaced that seal one time on a 454 I believe it was. You never said you checked free play and you have a loader right? Loader tractors use up clutches faster and you were moving debris. You need to check free play on throw out bearing and if good you need a new clutch and pressure plate
 
I may be wrong since this tractor does not have a TA, but the trans probably got some lube from the back compartment sloshing over into it and will probably be fine if you didn’t run it very much just doing a test run. DID YOU EVER CHECK THE CLUTCH PEDAL FREE PLAY? If there is no free play it is possible the clutch IS BEING HELD IN A PARTIALLY RELEASED STATE which can cause slipping. The pedal needs some free play so the throw out bearing is not depressing the fingers on the pressure plate when it is in its released position, as in foot off of it and pedal all the way up.
 
I may be wrong since this tractor does not have a TA, but the trans probably got some lube from the back compartment sloshing over into it and will probably be fine if you didn’t run it very much just doing a test run. DID YOU EVER CHECK THE CLUTCH PEDAL FREE PLAY? If there is no free play it is possible the clutch IS BEING HELD IN A PARTIALLY RELEASED STATE which can cause slipping. The pedal needs some free play so the throw out bearing is not depressing the fingers on the pressure plate when it is in its released position, as in foot off of it and pedal all the way up.
He wouldn’t hurt the trans , it has a lube pump that pumps oil into the trans but after dumping what was in the trans taking off the wrong plate, he’ll definitely be be low on fluid
 
And frankly you’re fixated on overfill for some reason, I’ve seen these tractors flywheels and be saturated with oil and the clutch still be fine. If your seal is leaking you’ll have drips at the real inspection plate , easy to see. I have a 574 and a 585, I run them overfilled by choice since I’ve had them, the 574 for over 50 years. Plus I work on them and have only replaced that seal one time on a 454 I believe it was. You never said you checked free play and you have a loader right? Loader tractors use up clutches faster and you were moving debris. You need to check free play on throw out bearing and if good you need a new clutch and pressure plate
Thanks. I plan to check it this week, time permitting. Also, I did remove the two bolt inspection plate first and there were a few drips. Unfortunately the previous owner apparently drilled a weep hole right through the middle of the two bolt inspection plate also.
 
I may be wrong since this tractor does not have a TA, but the trans probably got some lube from the back compartment sloshing over into it and will probably be fine if you didn’t run it very much just doing a test run. DID YOU EVER CHECK THE CLUTCH PEDAL FREE PLAY? If there is no free play it is possible the clutch IS BEING HELD IN A PARTIALLY RELEASED STATE which can cause slipping. The pedal needs some free play so the throw out bearing is not depressing the fingers on the pressure plate when it is in its released position, as in foot off of it and pedal all the way up.
I have very little free play. I plan to research how to check it . I have never adjusted a clutch before so this is new to me.
 
One inch from the platform is a pretty generic description. The pedal from its free released position measured where your foot goes should move 1 inch under light resistance before encountering the additional resistance of the springs in the clutch.
 
ll IT is probably about like the 574 just a newer model. The rod going from the clutch pedal to the short lever you will see, when you look down there at this adjustment area, will have a nut and the rod will have a threaded section on it. Remove the cotter pin and pin through either end . loosen the jam nut on rod screw it in to get the free play you need . Free play is just as the others described the easy portion of movement before you push the pressure plate springs. it will move easy by hand when you test for the free play. Just measure from the foot rest since that is the platform on it. Reinstall pin and cotter pin when you have the free play adjusted. You will need to insert the pin a few times to check your adjustment progress as you screw the rod in. Let us know how you made out .
 
There should also be a set screw on the pedal at the pivot to adjust how high the pedal rises from the foot rest platform. Can't remember the exact measurement, but should be around 5-6 inches. Then you adjust the 1 in. freeplay. But make sure the freeplay is not just worn out pin and pedal hole slop. A lot of these pedals on these tractors the hole for the pin is twice the size it should be after 50 years use.
 
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I have very little free play. I plan to research how to check it . I have never adjusted a clutch before so this is new to me.
If you have “very little free play “ of the pedal, then you just checked it. It’s just adjusting the linkage hooked to the clutch pedal to get clearance between the throw out bearing and pressure plate. Measure top of pedal from platform, then pedal should push down I believe around 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inches before the throw out bearing touches pp, do this with your hand. You can look thru the inspection plate to verify clearance. This should have been the first thing you did when your clutch started slipping.
 
ll IT is probably about like the 574 just a newer model. The rod going from the clutch pedal to the short lever you will see, when you look down there at this adjustment area, will have a nut and the rod will have a threaded section on it. Remove the cotter pin and pin through either end . loosen the jam nut on rod screw it in to get the free play you need . Free play is just as the others described the easy portion of movement before you push the pressure plate springs. it will move easy by hand when you test for the free play. Just measure from the foot rest since that is the platform on it. Reinstall pin and cotter pin when you have the free play adjusted. You will need to insert the pin a few times to check your adjustment progress as you screw the rod in. Let us know how you made out .

I hope to adjust it this evening. I have almost zero free travel now. If I can achieve 1 or 1 1/2 I will top off the transmission and try it again. Is there a possibility of gaining too much free play ? In other words if I get more than 1 1/2 inches is that a problem. I am going to exhaust all possibilities before hauling this tractor to a mechanic and then finding out I did not need to. The tractor is so lightly used it is hard to believe I have a clutch problem .
 
I hope to adjust it this evening. I have almost zero free travel now. If I can achieve 1 or 1 1/2 I will top off the transmission and try it again. Is there a possibility of gaining too much free play ? In other words if I get more than 1 1/2 inches is that a problem. I am going to exhaust all possibilities before hauling this tractor to a mechanic and then finding out I did not need to. The tractor is so lightly used it is hard to believe I have a clutch problem .
Yes you can get too much play, then you won’t be able to get it in gear. Just adjust it until you get say 1/8 inch between throw out bearing and pressure plate fingers observed thru inspection plate. It’s not a hard and fast measurement cause they’ll be slop in the linkage.
 
Yes you can get too much play, then you won’t be able to get it in gear. Just adjust it until you get say 1/8 inch between throw out bearing and pressure plate fingers observed thru inspection plate. It’s not a hard and fast measurement cause they’ll be slop in the linkage.
Thanks. This will be fun. I have poor eyesight and it is hard to see into that area . Ill get it done though.
 
If you have “very little free play “ of the pedal, then you just checked it. It’s just adjusting the linkage hooked to the clutch pedal to get clearance between the throw out bearing and pressure plate. Measure top of pedal from platform, then pedal should push down I believe around 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inches before the throw out bearing touches pp, do this with your hand. You can look thru the inspection plate to verify clearance. This should have been the first thing you did when your clutch started slipping.
I hope to eventually get time to adjust the clutch free play this afternoon . I am going to reseal the 10 bolt plate as I tore the gasket when I removed it. I have some ultra black gasket maker.Question: should I scrape off the old gasket and use the ultra black or just clean old one up and then add the ultra black. The torn section is about an inch long and stuck to the plate I removed while the rest of the gasket is stuck solid to the transmission case. I have used ultra black before on rear end case of trucks and it held well.
 
I hope to eventually get time to adjust the clutch free play this afternoon . I am going to reseal the 10 bolt plate as I tore the gasket when I removed it. I have some ultra black gasket maker.Question: should I scrape off the old gasket and use the ultra black or just clean old one up and then add the ultra black. The torn section is about an inch long and stuck to the plate I removed while the rest of the gasket is stuck solid to the transmission case. I have used ultra black before on rear end case of trucks and it held well.
I would just reuse the old gasket. I would wipe it down with brake clean even gas would work, but I hate to use it cause it smells so bad. Then just smear a thin layer of RTV over the old gasket with your finger. Dab a little extra on in the torn area and bolt it back up.
 
I would just reuse the old gasket. I would wipe it down with brake clean even gas would work, but I hate to use it cause it smells so bad. Then just smear a thin layer of RTV over the old gasket with your finger. Dab a little extra on in the torn area and bolt it back up.
That is what I'll do. I will let her sit for 24 hours and then top the transmission up . I hope to try that adjustment this evening. It looks fairly straight forward. Thanks. I have tinkered with many engines but never had much need to work on a transmission other than a Chevy truck trans seal when I was in college. I removed it, then stuck it back by laying it on top of myself while laying in the yard in my backyard holding a flashlight in my mouth one night. I had to have the truck and you do what you have to do... especially when you are young and strong!
 
That is what I'll do. I will let her sit for 24 hours and then top the transmission up . I hope to try that adjustment this evening. It looks fairly straight forward. Thanks. I have tinkered with many engines but never had much need to work on a transmission other than a Chevy truck trans seal when I was in college. I removed it, then stuck it back by laying it on top of myself while laying in the yard in my backyard holding a flashlight in my mouth one night. I had to have the truck and you do what you have to do... especially when you are young and strong!
You don’t have to wait to refill it. You’re just using the RTV as a gasket “dressing” sealer or dope whatever you like to call it. I used RTV alone as an actual “gasket maker” for auto/truck rear differential covers for years. Put it on tighten it down and throw the 85w140 back in almost immediately. Never had one leak.
 

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