acceptable hydraulic and gear oil

[Alaskannewfarmer]

For a 1974 IH 140 what are substitutes for IH Hy-Tran Fluid? I cannot get Hy-Trans. Local stores have the one's listed below. Are any of these be suitable substitutes?
1. Travelers Universal
2. Travelers ISO 46
3. Tractor Mystic JT9
4. Rotella HD
5. Hohn Deere has Hy Guard

Is Rotella 15-40W engine oil ok?

Is 80-140W gear oil ok or too thick and make shifting stiff?

 

[grandpa Love]

I live in Alabama so I use 15-40 diesel oil in the engine. 85-140 gear oil in the transmission and final drives ( they are straight cut gears). And I use the same motor oil in the hydraulic system. This is a bit debatable.....but I've used it for years ,zero issues. I have also used the cheap hydraulic fluid from the feed store( travelers universal?), usually in a yellow bucket, when I didn't have enough motor oil on hand, again zero issues. I have bought several offset Farmalls and when we test drove them the hydraulic system worked fine,got them home ,drained it and found nothing but water......its really not worth overthinking

 

[grandpa Love]

80-140 or 85-140 will be great in the transmission and may help to run smoother and quieter. It definitely will NOT affect shifting

 

[used red MN]

The cheapest of 1-3 will be fine for the hydraulics. The Rotella is fine for the engine.

 

[Jim Becker]

When your tractor was new IH filled the gear boxes (I believe all of them) and the hydraulic system with Hy-Tran. Hy-Tran was developed as a replacement for Touch-Control fluid that could be used in transmissions. Your transmission etc. are old designs, going back to way before Hy-Tran was developed. Back then, they used 90 weight gear oil. The machines usually worked fine with it. Once Hy-Tran was available, IH used it. One reason is that it is a better lubricant. Some people still use old-spec gear oil even in these newer tractors. If they have bad oil seals (most of us do) it won't leak out as fast. If you have a dragging clutch or bad pilot bushing, the extra drag from thick oil makes it grind a little less going into gear. Of course, that makes the thicker oil a bandaid for the other problem. The bottom line is your Touch-Control system should have a hydraulic oil, MS 1209 spec or better. Your gear boxes should have gear lube, GL-4 spec. You should not use GL-5 or GL-4/5 fluid as they tend to eat bronze and brass. Acceptable fluids will be labeled with those specs or may list compatibility with Hy-Tran.

Traveler Universal is labeled Hy-Tran compatible, maybe lists MS 1209 and GL-4. Your choices 2 and 3 are not. There are 80W90 gear oils that are listed GL-4, but they are getting harder to find. Most include GL-5. Your simple solution is a 5 gallon pail of Travelers Universal. (You will need about 3 gallons to change all the gearboxes and have about 2 left for when it leaks out (likely with the steering gear).

Any modern motor oil is fine in the engine. Viscosity depends on the temperatures you will be using it in.

 

[560Dennis]

Has the manuals come in yet ,you orderd.read them over the lubrication ,best wait and see they say . And make better decision as to the local availability.
my suggested oils differential and hydraulic
I use the NAPA, TSC Sae 90 gl1+in my Farmall C differential , as close to original spec I can get , want to stay away from gl4 and Gl5 cause you got bronze bushings that those oils attack ,in the transmission and the heavy oils wont sling (slinger gear ) to the trough as well to lube pto gear box oil pto .
hydradulic ,I use the chevron 1000 tractor fluid. Can use it in the differential if temp is really low.
when you drain the old oil out of gear box ,that will take a few days, over long period of time . So use a bottle wire brush through the drain port and pull out as much as you can . Might even use a flexible magnet to pull out metal gear teeth,pins , snap rings ,wires,c that somehow get in there. I also flush the gear box with kerosene to loosen up the sludge after three days driving the tractor up and own hills to get it sloshing it around. This will also expose old leaking oil seals that lip of seal is no longer pliable . So this more work for to consider on a 60 year old tractor.

 

[Ellis Kinney]

IH Super MTA. My tractor calls for Hy-Tran. My neighbor down the road works for Cat. and saves me left over pails of hydraulic oil from service runs. It is high quality and works well as a replacement. In a cold climate I would think almost any oil would be ok for an old transmission. It was below zero in Kentucky last week when I started my tractor and when I let the clutch out in neutral it killed the engine. Ellis

 

[grandpa Love]

Has the manuals come in yet ,you orderd.read them over the lubrication ,best wait and see they say . And make better decision as to the local availability.
my suggested oils differential and hydraulic
I use the NAPA, TSC Sae 90 gl1+in my Farmall C differential , as close to original spec I can get , want to stay away from gl4 and Gl5 cause you got bronze bushings that those oils attack ,in the transmission and the heavy oils wont sling (slinger gear ) to the trough as well to lube pto gear box oil pto .
hydradulic ,I use the chevron 1000 tractor fluid. Can use it in the differential if temp is really low.
when you drain the old oil out of gear box ,that will take a few days, over long period of time . So use a bottle wire brush through the drain port and pull out as much as you can . Might even use a flexible magnet to pull out metal gear teeth,pins , snap rings ,wires,c that somehow get in there. I also flush the gear box with kerosene to loosen up the sludge after three days driving the tractor up and own hills to get it sloshing it around. This will also expose old leaking oil seals that lip of seal is no longer pliable . So this more work for to consider on a 60 year old tractor.

A little research shows that older gear oils could damage brass, new formula doesn't. ....., I'm going waaaaay out on a limb here and betting no one is buying outdated old oil........ New oil is fine. Keep in mind the owners/ operator manuals were written up to 80 years ago. Technology has changed and improved.

 

[560Dennis]

IH Super MTA. My tractor calls for Hy-Tran. My neighbor down the road works for Cat. and saves me left over pails of hydraulic oil from service runs. It is high quality and works well as a replacement. In a cold climate I would think almost any oil would be ok for an old transmission. It was below zero in Kentucky last week when I started my tractor and when I let the clutch out in neutral it killed the engine. Ellis

If oil ,it wasn’t good enough oil for Cat ,why would you want to put it In your oil lube system s

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

IH Super MTA. My tractor calls for Hy-Tran. My neighbor down the road works for Cat. and saves me left over pails of hydraulic oil from service runs. It is high quality and works well as a replacement. In a cold climate I would think almost any oil would be ok for an old transmission. It was below zero in Kentucky last week when I started my tractor and when I let the clutch out in neutral it killed the engine. Ellis

Ironically, the Super MTA manual calls for heavy gear oil in the transmission, while the 140 manual calls for light Hy-Tran.

The Super MTA needs Hy-Tran or a similar lightweight hydraulic oil so the TA will shift properly, especially in cooler/cold weather.

It really doesn't matter on the 140, but there is no technical need for Hy-Tran in the transmission. It is virtually unchanged from the original A transmission which called for heavy gear oil in the manual.

 

[dhermesc]

IH Super MTA. My tractor calls for Hy-Tran. My neighbor down the road works for Cat. and saves me left over pails of hydraulic oil from service runs. It is high quality and works well as a replacement. In a cold climate I would think almost any oil would be ok for an old transmission. It was below zero in Kentucky last week when I started my tractor and when I let the clutch out in neutral it killed the engine. Ellis

The manual for your Super MTA calls for 90W I believe or 80W. The early Farmall 300 and 400 also called for heavy gear oil - until IH learned the TAs didn't function well in colder weather with gear oil. Then they called for "20W" (I believe) and you could/should buy a can of friction modifier to add to the oil to "turn it into Hytran" and then IH came out with "Hytran". I have a steel gallon can of the IH friction modifier from the 1950s.


If a store brand trans hydraulic fluid is compatible with MS1209 it would be good in any 50s, 60s or early 70s IH tractor with a TA. I've heard good things about the Mystic brand of oils. Traveller brand that is compatible with MS1209 is what i am running in my 706 - and have been for years. I don't believe it is as good at "encapsulating" moister as "real" Hytran - but that is just my opinion. That tractor rarely sits out overnight so it's not as big of deal.

 

[Jim Becker]

. . . It was below zero in Kentucky last week when I started my tractor and when I let the clutch out in neutral it killed the engine. Ellis

Behavior that extreme suggests that you have water separated from the oil in the bottom of your transmission, bottom shaft gears partly in water. Then the water froze capturing the gears in ice.

 

[47fivewindow]

I live in Alabama so I use 15-40 diesel oil in the engine. 85-140 gear oil in the transmission and final drives ( they are straight cut gears). And I use the same motor oil in the hydraulic system. This is a bit debatable.....but I've used it for years ,zero issues. I have also used the cheap hydraulic fluid from the feed store( travelers universal?), usually in a yellow bucket, when I didn't have enough motor oil on hand, again zero issues. I have bought several offset Farmalls and when we test drove them the hydraulic system worked fine,got them home ,drained it and found nothing but water......its really not worth overthinking

I agree with G Love that the old tractors without wet clutches TAs or wet brake could use many different fluids with out a noticeable difference. I have one worn out Cub with a hydro pump that leaks into the crankcase and a motor that burns oil. I put 15-40 in the touch control. It leaks just enough oil that engine stays full. No effect on hydraulics. I wouldn't dream of using any thing but hytran in the 574.

 

[Jim Becker]

A little research shows that older gear oils could damage brass, new formula doesn't. .....,

That is the reverse of what I have read, and I have read a lot on this question. I've seen that GL-4 is safe for yellow metals and GL-5 isn't. Of course, it is hard to tell when you are in an echo chamber of mis-information. One person says GL-5 is bad, then everybody repeats it. I do note that whoever wrote what you screenshot did hedge his bets with "most modern GL-5". It suggests that some GL-5 eats brass while others don't. Maybe later versions of GL-5 have been "fixed". Several things I have read seem to suggest that without saying it outright. I do know that real Hy-Tran, which claims best in the world for yellow metals, is GL-4.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Behavior that extreme suggests that you have water separated from the oil in the bottom of your transmission, bottom shaft gears partly in water. Then the water froze capturing the gears in ice.

Agreed. The oil's never going to be thick enough to stall the engine on its own. Ice will stop it cold, though. Yes, I went there.

Of course it's also possible the engine just stumbled and died because it wasn't warmed up yet.

 

[560Dennis]

Ironically, the Super MTA manual calls for heavy gear oil in the transmission, while the 140 manual calls for light Hy-Tran.

The Super MTA needs Hy-Tran or a similar lightweight hydraulic oil so the TA will shift properly, especially in cooler/cold weather.

It really doesn't matter on the 140, but there is no technical need for Hy-Tran in the transmission. It is virtually unchanged from the original A transmission which called for heavy gear oil in the manual.

Good to know on the hytran in the 140 manual ,good catch I say

 

[Ellis Kinney]

If anybody gets back to this, I was unclear about oils. I use the Cat stuff to replace Hy-Tran and 85-140 in the transmission. The engine was very cold and I should have let it warm up before trying to move it. My fault. Ellis

 

[300guy]

I tore out the sprag clutch in my 1955 300 TA by using the 85-140 as the owners manual said. I was using the tractor in 50 degree weather on a mild pull going up hill. The guy who did the TA replacement said the clutch went out because the thick oil was not warm enough (even though I had been using it for over an hour doing other stuff) and could tell the rollers were not fully seated correctly causing it to slip out and tear up the clutch. Ever since that I have used NOTHING but a HY Tran equivalent!!!! I think it is one of the Travelers you have listed in #1.

 

[Silverfoxx]

I live in Alabama so I use 15-40 diesel oil in the engine. 85-140 gear oil in the transmission and final drives ( they are straight cut gears). And I use the same motor oil in the hydraulic system. This is a bit debatable.....but I've used it for years ,zero issues. I have also used the cheap hydraulic fluid from the feed store( travelers universal?), usually in a yellow bucket, when I didn't have enough motor oil on hand, again zero issues. I have bought several offset Farmalls and when we test drove them the hydraulic system worked fine,got them home ,drained it and found nothing but water......its really not worth overthinking

I just saw in a thread where h stated that IH Farmall Cub at least use at first from factory I think it was a Sae 30 weight straight engine oil, and so did he without any problems. ???It seems as it is not too big of a deal as to what.

 

[Silverfoxx]

The cheapest of 1-3 will be fine for the hydraulics. The Rotella is fine for the engine.

I Agree 100%.