AD3.152 thrust washers question

[jfharper]

Doing a complete rebuild, had the crank turned down 1st time from standard to .01 undersized, new pistons rings, liners, the works.

During disassembly before crankshaft removal, per the manual, I set a feeler gauge between the old thrust washers and crank and read .013 loose, .015 tight but moveable. So I ordered ovesized thrust washers with the engine kit which were .007 oversized...so I was planning on around .008 end play with new oversized thrust washers.

So I put the newly turned crank in today with new bearings and used the new oversized thrust washers, added a thin layer of grease, per the manual, to hold thrust washers in place.

After putting just the crank in and torqueing the mains down, the rods on, with pistons/new rings in cylinders, the crank needs about 15-20ft bls of pressure to turn...but is does turn. I'm guessing it would be less if it weren't pushing the pistons...which are oiled by the way with 15w-40 delo mix with lucas oil treatment (like stp).

I tried to move the crank forward or back to get a feeler guage in there to see what end play I have, but I couldn't get a 0.0015 in there.

My guess is it is OK, because it does turn, and maybe the grease beteen the two thrust washers and bearing cap is adding to the extra.

The old thrust washers are not worn much at all, if any, so I'm sort of stumped why I would get .013-.015 end play with std thrust washer which show pretty much no wear, over practically no end play with supposedly 0.007 oversized thrust washers.

Unless there is 0.002 end play now which I can't measure for some reason. Manual says allowable end play is 0.002-0.015.

I also lubed the bearing with lucus assembly lube mix with 15w-40 delo and lucas oil treatment...I had some mix left over so I just added assembly lube. Machinist said if you lube with lucas assem lube the crank might be tight...he said just use 15w-40...I used a mix.

What do you all think about the end play...should I not worry about it?

 

[Tony in Mass.]

I was told an engine that is balanced with no bent rods etc, will turn for years without end play, it seems that is right huh? I was puzzled with mine too, luckily I had the old fashioned main bearings, thrush washers look like a cheap consolation prize. Mine was just fine- after- I tightened the timing gear, crank pulley etc up front, it seems that is the missing clue. As far as your turning issues, I told the Oliver forum the other night- gave up the crank, put the flywheel and starter back on, much nicer! Good luck!

 

[jfharper]

Well, while I was waiting for a reply to this post, I thought I would do some reading on the net and mainly found people saying you should be able to rotate your crank freely by hand, there may be a little resistance at first, but it should turn freely. If not, you could seize it. Don't want to go thru all this work to seize a motor.

So I decided to pull things apart. Pulled the rods off the crank and pushed them with the pistons out the top for removal, and one of my liners pushed out. :roll:

This is one of the liners I had trouble with, but decided to use anyway...I thought it was a bit different from the one left from the original kit. If you want the whole story, read my post here:
http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=662766&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
and scroll down to bottom couple posts on page 1, and end post on page 2.

But when I got the rods off, I could turn the crank by hand. There was a bit or resistance, but it did turn, but not entirely free...halfway it would bind a bit and stop, the other half would turn free...so I think my thrust washers are not correct. I'll either sand them down, or put the old ones in and measure, or I'll order OEMs.

The overhaul kit I ordered from A&I has been a number of problems, starting with the liners, then the machine shop told me last week that a rod bushing was too thin, so I had to order an OEM, cuz I wasn't about to go thru rounds again with A&I...it is so difficult getting the correct help from them, then they were defensive and in the end I didn't know what they were going to do, so no more dealings with A&I.

I think I will order two OEM liners, maybe 3, and replace the two that are not correct. The one replaced liner that pushed out with the rod/piston, and the other liner still in there. I should be able to pull it out easy since I made my own sleeve puller.

If any of the liners should push out it would have been number 2. Number 2 is where I put the original liner from the kit that survived...number 2 was just at the high spec for bore size...I had to hone it a bit to try to get it to concentricity, and honed till I reached high spec. The other two bore, 1 and 3, where way within spec, by a lot, so if I had the proper liners they should fit in there tight. I think those replacement liners are bunk.

The saga continues...

 

[Tony in Mass.]

I think some of this has to do with muscles and leverage, and holy cow, new rings and all that extra weight and friction everytime you add something gets to be a chore. The starter is risky yeah, but you can still take off the caps and see if a surface is scoring, when I was a kid I remember guys who knew what they were doing having to use a starter on tight v8's, and sometimes that was barely turning it. Everything in moderation I suppose- you are using different sleeves? I guess old Fergies kinda have to have a 'piston-ring- sleeve'set, is your block web warped? Keep that machinist on speed dial...btw, this coating you mentioned? is that like the red primer you find once in a while in a tranny case etc?