Advisement for a good old Row Crop Tractor

[Dean]

For the Fords, 960/1, How is the power band for first gear? Just wondering how well the power delivery is while creeping along with PTO implement.
I find on my current tractor, that I really need to crank up the RPMs to get good power for PTO, but that causes me to move too fast..

Engine will not be at low RPM at 540 PTO speed and PTO HP will be approaching that at 2,100 rated engine RPM.

Ground speed in first gear of 960/1 is less than that of your TO-30 in first gear.

 

[will-max dairy]

In your original post, you said "great" parts supply.

In my humble opinion, this means:

Ford
John Deere
Massey Ferguson

All of the other brands, including some tractors that I personally love (Farmalls), have gone through so many changes in ownership and "deprecation" of product lines, that I would steer way clear of them, if you truly want "great" parts supply.

And... avoid anything that was "newfangled" at the time. Avoid select-o-speed... torque amplifiers... power shifts...that three-level power shift thingy on early 70's Olivers... etc. All unique... all hard to get parts for... all new and unreliable technology at the time... all very spendy to repair now... and the techs that were good at it are retired.

For your power range, I would go with a Ford 4000 (with the eight speed manual tranny... not the rebranded 96x with 5 speed), if it was tall enough to do what you want. Having said that, I can't say that it's a better option than a Massey or Deere equivalent. I just don't have experience with those brands. One downside of old Fords is, oddly... they go in warp speed in reverse... in their base or low ranges. If there is a high range, the reverse is ludicrous speed... hold onto your hat.

PS... also... some of the initial implementations of torque amplifiers and such...were one-way clutches and downright dangerous, as your tractor would free-wheel downhill; when you're using the low range...

 

[sycamoreview]

I appreciate the feedback on the 960/1 ground speed, and the feedback on Parts and Supports for brands. I love tractors, but agreed on tractors that had unique features, might not be the best work horse for me at least since I don't have a bunch of them, just need another reliable one for my Ops. I'll check out the Ford 4000.

 

[will-max dairy]

I appreciate the feedback on the 960/1 ground speed, and the feedback on Parts and Supports for brands. I love tractors, but agreed on tractors that had unique features, might not be the best work horse for me at least since I don't have a bunch of them, just need another reliable one for my Ops. I'll check out the Ford 4000.

One catch with the 4000 (diesel) is cavitation of the coolant making pinholes in the sleeves. If you look at one, before you start it, bring a 1-1/8"(or 1-1/4"?... it's been a few years) wrench with you and a small basin. Ask if you can crack the oilpan plug... just a little. Put the basin under it, crack the plug with the wrench, and turn the plug out just far enough for something to drip one drop at a time. If it's green? Ya got pinholes in the sleeves. If the very first drops out are oil? You possibly have a runner.

If it passes this test, tighten the plug and start it up.

If it runs right, hydraulics and such work... and you buy it...

Bring it home and flush the coolant system... replace with a modern anti-cavitation diesel antifreeze.

If you already have a gas tractor, want a gas tractor, and you look at a 4000 gas, this issue does not apply, as far as I know.

And... good luck... with whatever you choose.

(I know it sounds odd... I say... "avoid these tractors"... then recommend another one... with a known issue... but
ALL of these machines under consideration are from 50 to 70 years old. Every single one of them will have had enough time to develop whatever problems they are known for. The difference is, can you possibly prevent it or put it off? If it rears its ugly head, can you obtain new parts to fix it? If you DO fix it, will the tractor last the rest of your lifetime?... and in this case, the answers are: A while, Yes and Most Likely)

 

[Tim in New York]

don't think you can beat the old MF35/135 etc tractors for something like that.

 

[sycamoreview]

Good point, I tired for one at an auction recently, and it went for way more than what I have seen JDs or other machines go for. The bidder told me they've become collector pieces now...

But I will say, they are a bit low to the ground for me, need a little higher in clearance.

 

[Ray,IN]

85 not a good choice .any 100 ser. or any 200 ser. all good tractors. 85 was a oddball parts are hard to find

I seem to recall the MF 85,90, series were made by Minneapolis Moline for MF. Yup, some replacement parts are scarce.

 

[Bob NY]

Good point, I tired for one at an auction recently, and it went for way more than what I have seen JDs or other machines go for. The bidder told me they've become collector pieces now...

But I will say, they are a bit low to the ground for me, need a little higher in clearance.

Good point, I tired for one at an auction recently, and it went for way more than what I have seen JDs or other machines go for. The bidder told me they've become collector pieces now...

But I will say, they are a bit low to the ground for me, need a little higher in clearance.

That is why I suggested the 65 or 165 high afch.

I seem to recall the MF 85,90, series were made by Minneapolis Moline for MF. Yup, some replacement parts are scarce.

That is NOT correct. The MF 85 and Super 90 were made by Massey Ferguson. It was the MF 95 and 97 that were rebadged Minnie Moes.

 

[Ray,IN]

That is why I suggested the 65 or 165 high afch.

That is NOT correct. The MF 85 and Super 90 were made by Massey Ferguson. It was the MF 95 and 97 that were rebadged Minnie Moes.

Thanks for the correction. I once had a MF 95 tricycle-type, I thought it was a 90 till you jogged my memory.

 

[caterpillar guy]

Well you don't need a hi crop for taters.You do nee them to be on 36and bigger tires. Meaning 36inch rim/wheel diameter or more. So that would let out most of the utility models mentioned here. IHC made some high utilities that had an axle shaft like the bigger tractors and were still somewhat lower. they would have tire sizes like 12-18inch wide with something like 30or 34 inch tire size. These would let you have a lowered stance with a bit more clearance . Otherwise it would be a row crop model like the Farmall models of the the mid number series tractors. I myself would stay away from the number series IH till you get to the 06 series. Most of the 300up to the 60 were just updated models of the H and M though they had live PTO and Live hydraulics. Most were not all that well done for durability with cam gear issues on the live hydraulic drive and the manual Lever for the live PTO. The 560 was known for rearend problems when you started pulling it hard like plowing. This is the reason I say to start with the 06 series and up to the 66 series they had hydraulic engaged live PTO, power steering and all those goodies with dependable drives to them. Those series can have a problem with the spline in the pressure plate wearing out then stripping so a split is needed to fix them. IF you had to do one it would probably be the one time in your life and done. I've owned an 806 since 1978 and had to do it once in that time. IT was probably the only time it was done since new. The TA was an item most want I've never had one so never missed it. With a Deere I would stay above the 2010and such and stick with the 3010/3020 up you will pay more but if you get into needing hydraulic drive motor for the tater harvester and such you will like the closed center hydraulics on them. The IH was all open center and does not play well with hydraulic motors being driven in a continuous use all day like that. They tend to get hot running them. Some of the models listed by others here are also closed center hydraulics. I was working for a guy in CO that had taters in a bigger way and he used 4850 Deere tractors to dig taters with. In power shift models. They worked fine with clearance enough though you don't need 200 HP at this time by the sounds of it. The Case models have parts available though they are still open center hyd till you get into later models like the 70or 90 series and up not sure just when they went to closed center All of these will be slow enough for the dirt to fall through the chain as you dig. Some of the dirt problem can be from trying to run to deep to get the taters . I don't now how deep you have to run. Though if the vines are killed they let the dirt through easier since the roots are now dead and vines started to dry out some. Location with dealer support if needed would be my main goal for a tractor. Some of the Oliver models and I don't know which ones were made by other companies, or parts of them were so might have an issue with some parts there and some engines were not the best for durability so would want more information on those before buying. Not saying any of the modesl mentioned are bad just some are better than otheres for your job. Most all of them would have 3pt with depth control of some sort. Time and experience will be the best solution to finding the tractor you need. IF you have some folks you could take with you to look at them with you that are knowledgeable on some of the different brands and models would possibly be a good thing.

 

[showcrop]

For the Fords, 960/1, How is the power band for first gear? Just wondering how well the power delivery is while creeping along with PTO implement.
I find on my current tractor, that I really need to crank up the RPMs to get good power for PTO, but that causes me to move too fast..

The Fords develop power at higher RPMs than some like JD and Farmalls. At the pulling competitions RPMs are sometimes checked and they will let the Fords and Olivers run at 100 RPMs higher than the others. They don't have the low RPM "grunt"

 

[Bob NY]

Thanks for the correction. I once had a MF 95 tricycle-type, I thought it was a 90 till you jogged my memory.

A 95 tricycle? I thought all of the 95 and 97 tractors were the wheatland style

 

[Destroked 450]

Cavitation issues mentioned above can happen to any brand, when it does happen to a 65/later Ford engine the cost to repair is higher, but this is usually a once in a lifetime event
If you do consider a 3 cylinder Ford I highly recommend a diesel model over gas

FYI the Massey 150 is the row crop version of the 135 utility

 

[CLYDE MASON]

the 960 ford would be a good choice.
should be able to pick one up between $2000 and $4000
clyde

 

[Dean]

A very high proportion of the Ford 960s/961s have power adjust rear wheels.

Indeed, PA rims were standard equipment though many have since been converted to 6-loop.

 

[MikeinKy]

Hey Forum,

I have been personally debating on getting another tractor for my growing activities. I currently have been using a TO-30, which is been a good little tractor, but I need a few features that didn't come with the TO-30. I am looking for a tractor that provides good 3 point integration, since I only have 3 point equipment. Also looking for Live/Independent PTO, wide front for safety.. Also a tractor that has good clearance. Love high crop tractors, but finding one for a reason price is out of the question..

My crop actives are vegetable crops, mainly potato's which is why I need clearance for hilling/spraying. I would like advisement for a machine with good power delivery since I have a PTO Potato digger, IH 26in wide bed. After digging last year with non live PTO (TO-30) I had to constantly stop the machine, clear the bed, and it felt like the tractor had to go fast in order to have enough PTO speed, which caused me to dig faster than the dirt would clear.. wasn't very ideal.. I also cultivate and have a 2 row JD-246 Planter so position/depth control would be nice.

So I was looking at the JD420/430 since that tractor seems to have good clearance, live PTO, ability to adjust the rear, and I hear its reliable, it does seem that the front is higher than the rear axle so sorta looks tapered? I also looked at the Ford 960-5 which has all those features as well, more HP, seems like better rear clearance, but more cumbersome to adjust the rear perhaps? I was also looking at a JD2510, deals haven't gone through, but I also feel that a smaller tractor might be more maneuverable for vegetable crops..

Just looking for some advisement for those that have used different machines, so any mentions would be great beyond what I listed. I am good with any brand that had/has great parts supply.

I have a john deere 2510 and I love it. Handy little tractor.

 

[Bob NY]

Destroked 450 wrote: FYI the Massey 150 is the row crop version of the 135 utility.
Yes and no. The 50 and 150 were available in both standard and high arch versions. The engine, transmission options, rear end and tire options of a 50 or 150 standard are identical to a 35 or 135 of the same vintage.

 

[sotxbill]

One catch with the 4000 (diesel) is cavitation of the coolant making pinholes in the sleeves. If you look at one, before you start it, bring a 1-1/8"(or 1-1/4"?... it's been a few years) wrench with you and a small basin. Ask if you can crack the oilpan plug... just a little. Put the basin under it, crack the plug with the wrench, and turn the plug out just far enough for something to drip one drop at a time. If it's green? Ya got pinholes in the sleeves. If the very first drops out are oil? You possibly have a runner.

If it passes this test, tighten the plug and start it up.

If it runs right, hydraulics and such work... and you buy it...

Bring it home and flush the coolant system... replace with a modern anti-cavitation diesel antifreeze.

If you already have a gas tractor, want a gas tractor, and you look at a 4000 gas, this issue does not apply, as far as I know.

And... good luck... with whatever you choose.

(I know it sounds odd... I say... "avoid these tractors"... then recommend another one... with a known issue... but
ALL of these machines under consideration are from 50 to 70 years old. Every single one of them will have had enough time to develop whatever problems they are known for. The difference is, can you possibly prevent it or put it off? If it rears its ugly head, can you obtain new parts to fix it? If you DO fix it, will the tractor last the rest of your lifetime?... and in this case, the answers are: A while, Yes and Most Likely)

cavitation was not a big problem on the fords will the mid 80s when injection pressures changed.. (10 series) and then mostly on the 6 cyl blocks as it was affecting lots of diesel engines at that time.....How ever one should check for milkshake colored oil on any tractor and bubbles in the radiator while running...

 

[will-max dairy]

cavitation was not a big problem on the fords will the mid 80s when injection pressures changed.. (10 series) and then mostly on the 6 cyl blocks as it was affecting lots of diesel engines at that time.....How ever one should check for milkshake colored oil on any tractor and bubbles in the radiator while running...

at 70 years old, cavitation can be a problem with any of them, I guess.

I had a Ford 4000 diesel that was a decent tractor. But, for the last year that I had it, I had to crack the oil pan and let about two ounces of coolant out of the oil pan before running it. It always started great, but it always used that leeeeeeeetle bit of coolant. But, like you say... maybe more to do with just a random old tractor issue than a known problem for that particular engine.

 

[NDIHC]

Another good choice, IH 544 or 656. Gear drive or hydro

I like the idea of an IH Hydro. Infinite speed control. The only downside is if the hydro goes bad. I have a Hydro 70 and love it! The hydro is very weak, but it still pushes snow and runs the IH 80 snowblower. When the time comes, I will buy a reman hydro unit from Herr's. $10k or so and I know what I have. The D312 is pretty bullet proof and in a hydro it hasn't been run into the ground for the most part.