Back after a lot of poking and prodding, 2n sleeves loose

[will-max dairy]

Going back to that shop, or another machine shop for a rebore... I'm hearing Clint Eastwood... "Do you feel lucky...?"

What if they try to bore it out a little more for custom repair sleeves and that job isn't perfect?

I would at least check the current fit to see if it is within the guidelines of a standard sleeve-setting adhesive. If so, then you have to think about whether you want to take on the risk of another machine shop trip.

We can assign blame and pontificate about the lack of skillset; but that's not going to improve your chances with another trip to any machine shop. They are getting out of practice with old N tractor engine blocks... and you don't have an extra laying around for them to practice on, do ya? Anybody that says they can do better needs to give you a quote for location, lead time and cost; because, they could be the bestest of the greatest machine shop ever, but if they're 2000 miles away, or 20 weeks out or 10,000 dollars... how does that materially help your situation?

Maybe, if you want a little bit of redress from your current shop, see if he will come out and measure the fit to see if it's within the requirements of sleeve-setting adhesives. And have him help you do the head interference test and remove any material that needs to be removed. I see you're worried about oil film. See if he has a recommendation for that. At least, then you would know if you meet the specified conditions for sleeve setting adhesives. If you don't, it's not even an option; and you can go one paragraph up and just take your chances with more machining.

Fast
Cheap
Good

Pick one, maybe two...

According to the interwebz, heat transfer with a good layer of adhesive is somewhere in the middle...

Metal to metal from a perfect interference press fit that contacts along the whole surface is best
A poor metal to metal fit with airgaps due to either corrosion or "out of round" conditions is the worst
A properly done installation with adhesive taking up any air gap is in the middle.

Also... if our Ford 2N is any example... it's 20 horsepower... with a radiator and cooling system bigger than what's on our 2018, 75 horsepower Mahindra... and the cooling fan is louder than the engine... Ford 2N tractors run fairly cool if you work them within their limits, they have some margin for sub-optimal heat transfer.

 

[William S]

And you are worried about using a modern anerobic automotive adhesive? Sheesh!!!

BTW - Teddy is a bit technology challenged.

At the risk of being accused of low blows ask him if he still believes in Joe Newnan's energy machine.

TOH

what a person believes in or not is not the subject here, i just to know that i am about to do the best for my tractor and not myself image. it is just that i have heard some good and some bad about the anerobic adhesive, and if i am to break down the engine to it's base components, well sounds like time to think about what i am doing here. i have questions about what options are available as do many of us out here in tractor land.
In my mind eye i see that oil residue can not be easily cleaned up with brake clean as the oil has had more than enough time to seep into the pore of the metal forming the inside cylinder walls. to get the type of clean needed to get a proper adhesion would go beyond a spray and wipe. now i could be all wrong on this as i recall as long as a film of oil exists there lies potential for failure. again i may be wrong and the adhesive may be able to somehow displace or absorb of erase said film and adhere to the metal as stated by the manufacturer at least i am using my mind to think through this and question as i go.
as for an energy machine, one would be amazed as to what people believe in, was a time Tesla was thought of as wrong. i'd have to look up this newman's device, when i have time to do so.

 

[will-max dairy]

If your current machinist is a family friend... maybe he would be down with...

"Come out and help me make the best of the current situation... and if things go south within (specify some time... )... then give me break on re-machining..."

Because there is a good chance that neither of you needs to go through any more red tape... maybe you don't need another trip to the shop.. .and he doesn't need to do any re-machining...

 

[TheOldHokie]

so what are we talking about here? maybe we need to define bore and honing and any other type of wearing away withe the metal in a cylinder. So boring, just what is that? Is it similar to other types of metal grinding? if so what types?
In my mind whenever there is a instrument placed within the cylinder that changes the shape or size of said cylinder is that not boring?
Is boring defined by certain size requirements? such as before and after said instrument has done it work? i ask because it sounds like once it is bored there is little change there after in relation to a sleeve. unless the cylinder shape is corrupted over time and needs grinding down more to obtain a roundness for the sleeve.
are all sleeves of the0.090 size the same on the outside diameter (OD)? as i have not looked at the specs for sleeves due to my ignorance of what i would be looking at.
not trying to be like another wore out subject, just trying to have a clear picture of what I need to know when talking bore. so that we may be able to have a more productive talk here. if the is a resource you can direct me to , let me know and i will go and try to learn there. i am not afraid of learning , only of remaining ignorant beyond all of these issues.

To a machinist boring is the use of a cutting tool to remove material along the circunference of a hole. Its a "roughing" process.

Honing is a grinding process used to remove material to a finale sizd and impart a surface finish. Its a "finishing" process providing greater precision than boring.

Fitting sIeeves to an engine starts with a borung operation and the hole is then honed to final size.

Over 75 years of operation every engine block distorts and gets pounded out of shape. Thats why a "top quality" engine rebuild includes decking the block, align honing main and cam ways, balancing andvstraightening the cranjshaft, and resizing big ends of rods.

In real life thats over kill on a 20 HP 2000 RPM L head and virtually nobody spends that kInd of money.

Any reputable automotive machine shop knows way more about engine building and your N series engine than you ever will. Pick one and trust their judgement. They are experienced professionals and you are a clueless rookie.

TOH

 

[William S]

Going back to that shop, or another machine shop for a rebore... I'm hearing Clint Eastwood... "Do you feel lucky...?"

What if they try to bore it out a little more for custom repair sleeves and that job isn't perfect?

I would at least check the current fit to see if it is within the guidelines of a standard sleeve-setting adhesive. If so, then you have to think about whether you want to take on the risk of another machine shop trip.

We can assign blame and pontificate about the lack of skillset; but that's not going to improve your chances with another trip to any machine shop. They are getting out of practice with old N tractor engine blocks... and you don't have an extra laying around for them to practice on, do ya? Anybody that says they can do better needs to give you a quote for location, lead time and cost; because, they could be the bestest of the greatest machine shop ever, but if they're 2000 miles away, or 20 weeks out or 10,000 dollars... how does that materially help your situation?

Maybe, if you want a little bit of redress from your current shop, see if he will come out and measure the fit to see if it's within the requirements of sleeve-setting adhesives. And have him help you do the head interference test and remove any material that needs to be removed.

Fast
Cheap
Good

Pick one, maybe two...

According to the interwebz, heat transfer with a good layer of adhesive is somewhere in the middle...

Metal to metal from a perfect interference press fit that contacts along the whole surface is best
A poor metal to metal fit with airgaps due to either corrosion or "out of round" conditions is the worst
A properly done installation with adhesive taking up any air gap is in the middle.

Also... if our Ford 2N is any example... it's 20 horsepower... with a radiator and cooling system bigger than what's on our 2018, 75 horsepower Mahindra... and the cooling fan is louder than the engine... Ford 2N tractors run fairly cool if you work them within their limits, they have some margin for sub-optimal heat transfer.

i don't plan on going back to the shop, now i am seeking the repair that is what i can do with what i have here and now.
if i put adhesive only on the beginning and end of the sleeve do i not leave a section separated from the block? holding more heat?and we are talking about the two center cylinders. actually i knew little or nothing about the cooling system of the tractor and even less than how it compares to modern tractors. i thank you for the needed lesson there, i will try to add that to my knowledge base.
as for the adhesive and heat transfer, thank you for the knowledge, it is needed here.
as for spec on fit, it's a 0.001-0.002 press fit i don't believe with my hand qualifies as press fit, so i am to assume, that word again, that the adhesive is my next best option. with out any further understanding of how i came to this point. i can't even state what type of metal was used to make the sleeves. or that it even matters.
bottom line we don't know why the sleeves moved to begin with. corrosion, out of round, weak metal anything could be possible.

i need to get outside and see what i can do without the tractor and then think of how to do the things the tractor made easy to do. i really have to tip my hat at the people who worked the farms of the past without tractors or even engines of any type, real salt of the earth they were and deserving of my gratitude.
i do appreciate your response, more than you know, i learned a few things and that is good.

 

[will-max dairy]

i don't plan on going back to the shop, now i am seeking the repair that is what i can do with what i have here and now.
if i put adhesive only on the beginning and end of the sleeve do i not leave a section separated from the block? holding more heat?and we are talking about the two center cylinders. actually i knew little or nothing about the cooling system of the tractor and even less than how it compares to modern tractors. i thank you for the needed lesson there, i will try to add that to my knowledge base.
as for the adhesive and heat transfer, thank you for the knowledge, it is needed here.
as for spec on fit, it's a 0.001-0.002 press fit i don't believe with my hand qualifies as press fit, so i am to assume, that word again, that the adhesive is my next best option. with out any further understanding of how i came to this point. i can't even state what type of metal was used to make the sleeves. or that it even matters.
bottom line we don't know why the sleeves moved to begin with. corrosion, out of round, weak metal anything could be possible.

i need to get outside and see what i can do without the tractor and then think of how to do the things the tractor made easy to do. i really have to tip my hat at the people who worked the farms of the past without tractors or even engines of any type, real salt of the earth they were and deserving of my gratitude.
i do appreciate your response, more than you know, i learned a few things and that is good.

As far as "press fit" and what your circumstance is. If you can move it with the piston or your hand. It's not a press fit.

Edit... see comment by The Old Hokie below that gives a more rigorous definition...

So that would steer you towards adhesive. (or at least considering it)

The adhesive will only work with so much gap.

I would think that your fit is at least close enough for adhesive, even if it isn't a press fit. BUT... I'm not there, and I don't know what the adhesive manufacturers would specify. So, in this regard, all I'm advocating is a sanity check. If your sleeve rattles in the bore with something like 10 thousands of space... well... maybe it's a little too loose even for adhesive.

Your question about leaving a gap in the adhesive in the middle... and how it affects heat transfer... I have no opinion on. No experience.

That's something that sounds as if it's an adaptation to get enough adhesive on to do the job... but without taking so long that the adhesive sets up before you can get things put in place. I defer to those that have done the process to know how to do it.


***Complete tangent coming up... ****************** lol

Something relevant that I have experienced is IH D407 engines. My brother rebuilt a couple of these blocks on the home farm over the years. With those, the rebuild kit is a set of sleeves with varying wall thickness... and a press that measures installation pressure. If you're doing it at home, you literally have to mix and match sleeves until they press in within the specified pressure range. But, that also means that you might need a kit of, say 8 or 10 sleeves to press in the 6 that the engine needs. And guess what... even with all of that diligence, one of the biggest problems with these engines... is sleeves slipping out. Even after my brother pored over these engines and fretted about proper sleeve selection and pressure... he got screwed over a little while after rebuild once or twice.

I guess what I'm saying is... a perfect press fit is good... but aint 100% forever either.

 

[wore out]

i don't plan on going back to the shop, now i am seeking the repair that is what i can do with what i have here and now.
if i put adhesive only on the beginning and end of the sleeve do i not leave a section separated from the block? holding more heat?and we are talking about the two center cylinders. actually i knew little or nothing about the cooling system of the tractor and even less than how it compares to modern tractors. i thank you for the needed lesson there, i will try to add that to my knowledge base.
as for the adhesive and heat transfer, thank you for the knowledge, it is needed here.
as for spec on fit, it's a 0.001-0.002 press fit i don't believe with my hand qualifies as press fit, so i am to assume, that word again, that the adhesive is my next best option. with out any further understanding of how i came to this point. i can't even state what type of metal was used to make the sleeves. or that it even matters.
bottom line we don't know why the sleeves moved to begin with. corrosion, out of round, weak metal anything could be possible.

i need to get outside and see what i can do without the tractor and then think of how to do the things the tractor made easy to do. i really have to tip my hat at the people who worked the farms of the past without tractors or even engines of any type, real salt of the earth they were and deserving of my gratitude.
i do appreciate your response, more than you know, i learned a few things and that is good.

One thing is for sure, the combination of the thin lip at the top of the sleeves combined with liner counterbore depths that are likely deeper than the lip is thick means you CANNOT count on the lip holding the loose sleeves in place so you MUST use retaining compound or have the bores checked out and trued up IF needed, then invest in custom-made sleeves. I've been working on engines for over 60 years and would not even give a second thought to using the puckey and moving on. Since the engine will be apart you can swab out the bores with hot soapy water to clean up any residual oil and dry promptly with compressed air to prevent "flash rust". Once you get the sleeves in place wipe a light coating of engine oil on all machined areas of the block to further keep rust at bay.

 

[TheOldHokie]

As far as "press fit" and what your circumstance is. If you can move it with the piston or your hand. It's not a press fit.

So that would steer you towards adhesive. (or at least considering it)

The adhesive will only work with so much gap.

I would think that your fit is at least close enough for adhesive, even if it isn't a press fit. BUT... I'm not there, and I don't know what the adhesive manufacturers would specify. So, in this regard, all I'm advocating is a sanity check. If your sleeve rattles in the bore with something like 10 thousands of space... well... maybe it's a little too loose even for adhesive.

Your question about leaving a gap in the adhesive in the middle... and how it affects heat transfer... I have no opinion on. No experience.

That's something that sounds as if it's an adaptation to get enough adhesive on to do the job... but without taking so long that the adhesive sets up before you can get things put in place. I defer to those that have done the process to know how to do it.


***Complete tangent coming up... ****************** lol

Something relevant that I have experienced is IH D407 engines. My brother rebuilt a couple of these blocks on the home farm over the years. With those, the rebuild kit is a set of sleeves with varying wall thickness... and a press that measures installation pressure. If you're doing it at home, you literally have to mix and match sleeves until they press in within the specified pressure range. But, that also means that you might need a kit of, say 8 or 10 sleeves to press in the 6 that the engine needs. And guess what... even with all of that diligence, one of the biggest problems with these engines... is sleeves slipping out. Even after my brother pored over these engines and fretted about proper sleeve selection and pressure... he got screwed over a little while after rebuild once or twice.

I guess what I'm saying is... a perfect press fit is good... but aint 100% forever either.

Two comments:

In machinist vernacular the term free fit descrubes a cIearance fit where an object will fall through/into a housing of its own weight. A press fit is an interference fit where some amount of force is required to push an object through/into a housing. As an example a commonly used specification for piston wrist pin fit is a "lighy thumb press fit". The pin wont fall of its own weight but the interference is so a mall it can be easily pressed in with your thumb. So lets dispense with semantics. The Ford specification for N liner fit is .0005" interference. You cant press that in by hand but you can easily drive it in with a hammer. Ford provided a special installtion tool for doing that and I have sold msny repops of that tool to folks on this forum.

Moving on to adhesives. Loctite 640 will produce 3000 PSI shear strength on parts with a diametral clearance up to .004". If the sleeves wont fall into the cylinder of thier own weight they are candidates for Loctite 640.

Dan

 

[will-max dairy]

Two comments:

In machinist vernaculsr the term free fit descrubes a cIearance fit where an object will fall through/into a housing of its own weight. A press fit is an interference fit where some amount of force is required to push an object throuhh/into a housing. Asxan examp look a commonly used specification for piston wrist pin fit is a "thumb press fit". The pin wont fall of its own weight but the interference is so a mall it can be pressed in with your thumb. So lets despense with semantics. The Ford specification for N liner fit is .0005" interference. You cant press that in by h as nd bit you can easily drive it in with a hammer i make the Ford special tool for doing that.

Moving to adhesives Loctite 640 will produce 3000 PSI shear strength on parts with a diametral clearance up to .004". If the sleeves wont fall into the cylinder of thier own weight they are candidates for Loctite 640.

Dan

"Moving to adhesives Loctite 640 will produce 3000 PSI shear strength on parts with a diametral clearance up to .004". If the sleeves wont fall into the cylinder of thier own weight they are candidates for Loctite 640."

That's all I was looking for... some kind of spec for just how "loose" is still a candidate for adhesive, as a sanity check.

 

[TheOldHokie]

"Moving to adhesives Loctite 640 will produce 3000 PSI shear strength on parts with a diametral clearance up to .004". If the sleeves wont fall into the cylinder of thier own weight they are candidates for Loctite 640."

That's all I was looking for... some kind of spec for just how "loose" is still a candidate for adhesive, as a sanity check.

Thats Henkels number. Personally I would not feel warm and fuzzy using 640 on sleeves that loose.

Something nobody has mentioned - .this is a very common situation and 005 oversize .090 sleeves can be purchased right here. Fitting them will require machining.

Ford 8N Cylinder Sleeve, .005 oversize .090 - S1137-2

Ford 8N Cylinder Sleeve, .005 oversize .090 for sale, S1137-2. Oversize replacement for .090 thickness sleeves for larger cylinder block holes. Outside sleeve diameter is 3.373, .005 larger than original. Sleeve is .0925 thickness to retain original piston bore of 3 3\16 inches. This sleeve has...

www.yesterdaystractors.com

TOH

 

[William S]

Two comments:

In machinist vernacular the term free fit descrubes a cIearance fit where an object will fall through/into a housing of its own weight. A press fit is an interference fit where some amount of force is required to push an object through/into a housing. As an example a commonly used specification for piston wrist pin fit is a "lighy thumb press fit". The pin wont fall of its own weight but the interference is so a mall it can be easily pressed in with your thumb. So lets dispense with semantics. The Ford specification for N liner fit is .0005" interference. You cant press that in by hand but you can easily drive it in with a hammer. Ford provided a special installtion tool for doing that and I have sold msny repops of that tool to folks on this forum.

View attachment 113126

Moving on to adhesives. Loctite 640 will produce 3000 PSI shear strength on parts with a diametral clearance up to .004". If the sleeves wont fall into the cylinder of thier own weight they are candidates for Loctite 640.

Dan

ok thats the plan then

 

[William S]

To a machinist boring is the use of a cutting tool to remove material along the circunference of a hole. Its a "roughing" process.

Honing is a grinding process used to remove material to a finale sizd and impart a surface finish. Its a "finishing" process providing greater precision than boring.

Fitting sIeeves to an engine starts with a borung operation and the hole is then honed to final size.

Over 75 years of operation every engine block distorts and gets pounded out of shape. Thats why a "top quality" engine rebuild includes decking the block, align honing main and cam ways, balancing andvstraightening the cranjshaft, and resizing big ends of rods.

In real life thats over kill on a 20 HP 2000 RPM L head and virtually nobody spends that kInd of money.

Any reputable automotive machine shop knows way more about engine building and your N series engine than you ever will. Pick one and trust their judgement. They are experienced professionals and you are a clueless rookie.

TOH

ouch

 

[William S]

If your current machinist is a family friend... maybe he would be down with...

"Come out and help me make the best of the current situation... and if things go south within (specify some time... )... then give me break on re-machining..."

Because there is a good chance that neither of you needs to go through any more red tape... maybe you don't need another trip to the shop.. .and he doesn't need to do any re-machining...

i am not taking it anywhere, he does not and he won't as he sees it all within standard, what ever that is. i am on my own to repair the sleeves and the ring gear and the oil leaks and whatever comes up after that. I just wanted to have some idea of what was going on. i can't mic the cylinder or anything as I have limitations of tools on that. the only standard i have is if it falls in the cylinder of it's own volition then it may be too far out.

 

[teddy52food]

my sleeves were not like that before he did his work. what happened to create this situation? and so I am now stuck with a 'non-standard' engine any way i go. 'cause sleeves moving in the cylinder is 'non-standard' correct? i took it to him because the job was way beyond my skill set and tool set at this time. i can plow my way through this job and glue the sleeves in, but i asked or at least thought i asked what would be the future issues of doing so?
somewhere someone had the correct job done and left me with what i would call a standard engine, something i was not cursing over when it came to repairing it with my skill-set. i would have thought i would still be in that situation if i took it to a shop and had them properly do the work. so what am i to take from this? the shop did the correct job and i am just concerned over nothing? i doubt that he did not know about the sleeves before it left the shop. then why leave them like that?

overthinking, yes that may be true, but to not do so only .......... what i wrote was in response to your 2 questions. the what and the where of the problem, mostly hypothetical of the moment. you asked me "What makes you think you have the wrong sleeves? Where are you going to get the "right" ones?" and i did a poor job of responding to them, so the sleeves were not like that before and my main issue with the engine was oil was getting past the exhaust valves and into the manifold of no.s 3 & 4 cylinders. talk about smoking, but she still wanted to work. now i am unsure if what i am left with is worse than i had before, just kicking the can down the road 10-20 years or so, maybe only 5-10 years.

as for the second question, well i have not a clue in the world where to get such sleeves.

now i wonder if he ground the block down did he even consider that the piston may hit the cover as it loosen up or the valves? as i see no changes to the inside of the head and it does not take much to cause a problem. there are so many things that a person can muscle through in the shop manuals. I guess that is why ford and ferguson wrote it that way. knowing not every tractor owner would be able to perform the correct job as desired.

Oil getting past the exaust valves would blow out the ex pipe. Those sleeves were loose on the last job & didn't cool as they should & burned oil when the other 2 tight ones were OK. Find a shop that can put repair sleeves in it. I would put a sleeve in that can be bored to fit the pistons & if you run it hard enough & long enough to need rebuilding again, then git it bored for the sleeves. Or find a different block to begin with???

 

[Ultradog MN]

By my reading the machine shop did not bore it. My assumption is they installed mew aftermarket sleeves.

The parent bore is likely slighyly oversize from age and movement of the original/previous sleeves.

TOH

I would guess the sleeves came from the country that has aided us in becoming a landfill economy and the looseness is caused by poor quality control at that factory.
Have your machinist glue them in with a product made for that and fugetaboutit.
They will last as long as you will and when you die the tractor will go to scrap as we are the last generation that gives a damn about this ancient stuff.

 

[William S]

Oil getting past the exaust valves would blow out the ex pipe. Those sleeves were loose on the last job & didn't cool as they should & burned oil when the other 2 tight ones were OK. Find a shop that can put repair sleeves in it. I would put a sleeve in that can be bored to fit the pistons & if you run it hard enough & long enough to need rebuilding again, then git it bored for the sleeves. Or find a different block to begin with???

well, the main problem was no. 4 and now no.s 2 & 3, seemed like the exhaust valve on 4 was not closing all the way, too much carbon build-up and 3 was going that way, i think. as no. 4 & 3 share an exhaust port in the manifold it was pretty bad in there. yes, i may be looking for a new to me block to kick start this tractor once more. maybe next winter, i will need to see how good i get around then. being as i will never really know why the sleeves moved in the cylinder another block may be the best option. i read an article that said over 50% of n tractors are still working today.

 

[showcrop]

Funny!!

 

[will-max dairy]

i am not taking it anywhere, he does not and he won't as he sees it all within standard, what ever that is. i am on my own to repair the sleeves and the ring gear and the oil leaks and whatever comes up after that. I just wanted to have some idea of what was going on. i can't mic the cylinder or anything as I have limitations of tools on that. the only standard i have is if it falls in the cylinder of it's own volition then it may be too far out.

Well then, my friend... welcome to the club of... people who have torn apart an N tractor at home and then made a ton of compromises to put it back together.. and the darn thing still runs... club.

Have a beer and stay a while.

ok thats the plan then

Your time. Your money. Your tractor. Your plan.

The .005 oversized repair sleeves probably give a machine shop the chance to bore out any out of round, corrosion... or other condition that the block may have.

But also... the issue of tolerances will still be there. Because they need to bore to .005 (5 thousands) oversize with a maximum of what? .0005 (five ten-thousands) interference with the new repair sleeves.

The repair sleeves are aftermarket the shop will have to work with whatever tolerance accuracy they have to that nominal .005 oversize. The shop will be working with a block that's 80 years old. I'm not sure what they use for fiducials to align all of their equipment, or how stable those fiducials are after 80 years of heat cycling the block. So... probably... the shop will have to err on the side of caution with the overbore to make sure the repair sleeves fit... which means they are going to try to err on the side of the interference being more like .0002 than .0008... see where I'm going with this?

An oversize rebore and oversize repair sleeves are probably the best documented option... but there is a finite probability that you will still have to use a little bit of sleeve-setting adhesive even on the oversized sleeves, if you want to absolutely guarantee that they will stay in place. In other words, there is a finite probability that you will be sitting in the same situation as to tightness of sleeves... albeit with cleaner and rounder cylinders...just nominally .005 bigger sleeves... in a month or so... or however long it takes to get the re-bore and repair sleeves.

I'm sincerely rooting for you.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Well then, my friend... welcome to the club of... people who have torn apart an N tractor at home and then made a ton of compromises to put it back together.. and the darn thing still runs... club.

Have a beer and stay a while.

Your time. Your money. Your tractor. Your plan.

The .005 oversized repair sleeves probably give a machine shop the chance to bore out any out of round, corrosion... or other condition that the block may have.

But also... the issue of tolerances will still be there. Because they need to bore to .005 (5 thousands) oversize with a maximum of what? .0005 (five ten-thousands) interference with the new repair sleeves.

The repair sleeves are aftermarket. The shop will be working with a block that's 80 years old. I'm not sure what they use for fiducials to align all of their equipment, or how stable those fiducials are after 80 years of heat cycling the block. So... probably... the shop will have to err on the side of caution with the overbore to make sure the repair sleeves fit... which means they are going to try to err on the side of the interference being more like .0002 than .0008... see where I'm going with this?

Rebore and repair sleeves are probably the best documented option... but there is a finite probability that you will still have to use a little bit of sleeve-setting adhesive on the repair sleeves, if you want to absolutely guarantee that they will stay in place. In other words, there is a finite probability that you will be sitting in the same situation as to tightness of sleeves... albeit with cleaner and rounder cylinders...just .005 bigger sleeves... in a month or so... or however long it takes to get the re-bore and repair sleeves.

I'm sincerely rooting for you.

A modern automotive machine shop can reliably hone a cylinder to a couple tenths (.0002). So measure the OD of each sleeve, bore the corresponding cylinder in the block to .002 under, and finish hone to .0005 interference. This type of selective fit is a process they do every day.

TOH

 

[will-max dairy]

A modern automotive machine shop can reliably hone a cylinder to a couple tenths (.0002). So measure the OD of each sleeve, bore the corresponding cylinder in the block to .002 under, and finish hone to .0005 interference. This type of selective fit is a process they do every day.

TOH

so... sounds like this process is more reliable if done with the new sleeves in hand...

... also... probably more reliable if you don't try to "economize" the process and have them do the rebore and rehone; while you install the sleeves at home...

...you would just have to pay them to do what they do to the best of their ability...

which makes sense...

And, I don't bet... but if I did... I would lay even money on the machine shop using a little bit of adhesive, if they are going to absolutely be put on the hook for the sleeves staying in place for seven generations of progeny...