Balance between new equipment and using what you have question.

[will-max dairy]

The only problem with this is when it rains, the cows will make holes in the 2/3 you cut for hay and you then have rough fields to drive over.

I have never experienced this with proper stocking rates, even through some very wet summers in NY State. I've never felt a tractor tire fall into a single hoofprint.

But, others mileage may vary.

Especially on large dairies... if you are channeling the cows back and forth 2x or 3x a day for milking, and you have a bunch of cows... well, expect some really well defined paths that turn into ruts.

But with beef, dry cows, etc... which don't need to be channeled multiple times a day? Meh... never been a problem for me.


But... man... have I had my teeth jarred out by ruts left by tractors in previous years...

Compared to that, cows aren't even on my radar.

 

[DRussell]

I have never experienced this with proper stocking rates, even through some very wet summers in NY State. I've never felt a tractor tire fall into a single hoofprint.

But, others mileage may vary.

Especially on large dairies... if you are channeling the cows back and forth 2x or 3x a day for milking, and you have a bunch of cows... well, expect some really well defined paths that turn into ruts.

But with beef, dry cows, etc... which don't need to be channeled multiple times a day? Meh... never been a problem for me.

Back in my former life as a dairy farmer I hated mowing pasture because of the roughness.

 

[will-max dairy]

Back in my former life as a dairy farmer I hated mowing pasture because of the roughness.

I can relate, if it's similar to dad's pastures growing up. Dad didn't rotate the pastures, or cut for hay. The cows went out and back from a central location 2x a day with no defined lanes... so they made their own. They would make winding "roads" on contours up and down slopes. In wet spots, they would follow each other and put their hooves into the prints made by previous cows... creating washboards and checkerboards of deep holes... so I think I know what you're talking about.

Once my wife and I started our own herd, it took me about five years to get a feel for how and when to rotate cows in and out... how to define strips for grazing and such.

I shouldn't give the impression that it's a slam dunk... but with some learning, observation and experience, it's possible.

 

[will-max dairy]

Back in my former life as a dairy farmer I hated mowing pasture because of the roughness.

You gotta get 'em into the paddock with good sod... and get 'em out while there's still sod... if you leave them too long and turn the paddock into a glorified loafing area... that's a whole 'nother ball game.

 

[DRussell]

I can relate, if it's similar to dad's pastures growing up. Dad didn't rotate the pastures, or cut for hay. The cows went out and back from a central location 2x a day with no defined lanes... so they made their own. They would make winding "roads" on contours up and down slopes. In wet spots, they would follow each other and put their hooves into the prints made by previous cows... creating washboards and checkerboards of deep holes... so I think I know what you're talking about.

Once my wife and I started our own herd, it took me about five years to get a feel for how and when to rotate cows in and out... how to define strips for grazing and such.

I shouldn't give the impression that it's a slam dunk... but with some learning, observation and experience, it's possible.

We lived just south of Lake Erie in Northwestern PA at the time. Where a typical summer was 10 days of rain followed by 3 days of dry in order to make your hay. I had about 60 acres of pasture and had it divided up into several sections for rotational grazing. But, there was always enough rain that the cows made it rough, rougher than my hay fields for sure.

I remember thinking that I was winning whether it rained or was dry. If it was dry, I could get into the field and get crops done. If it was raining, that helped the pasture grow better/faster.

 

[DRussell]

You gotta get 'em into the paddock with good sod... and get 'em out while there's still sod... if you leave them too long and turn the paddock into a glorified loafing area... that's a whole 'nother ball game.

I get what you are saying, and I even agree with you. It wasn't a glorified loafing area for sure. It was sod, but there's a reason it was pasture and not farm land.

 

[will-max dairy]

I get what you are saying, and I even agree with you. It wasn't a glorified loafing area for sure. It was sod, but there's a reason it was pasture and not farm land.

Sure. Even in my situation, there were some paddocks that were too rough for hay. They stayed dedicated to pasture... and they were often the first paddocks grazed in the spring, and grazed hard to keep them clean. Hopefully that made it so they didn't need mowing... maybe a walkthrough with a hedge trimmer or loppers to knock off the MF cane that sprouted here and there.

As the summer progressed... the grazing would still rotate back to that, when it recovered... but by fall the grazing was usually concentrated on hay fields (which hopefully are better ground)... and those first paddocks would be rested in the fall, so they would be the first to come back in the spring.

 

[Destroked 450]

As for stocking rate... grazing (purposely) wastes some forage due to trampling and such... but that makes it so that you don't need commercial fertilizer.

In our neck of the woods, you can generally depend on about 100 small squares of forage per acre per year... which means 50 for grazing and 50 for the winter...

A cow needs 365 small squares per year... so an acre supports about 1/4 of a cow... safely with minimal external inputs.

Or... like you are planning to do... you can just stock way more lightly and mow/mulch/trample the excess...

I know I’m farther south (Ky) than you with winter hay feeding ranging from 100-135 days depending on fall forage and how late spring weather arrives. But I can winter feed my beef cows on 1 small square bale per cow per day, so I figure on having a minimum of 135 squares per caw for winter feeding. We bale fescue/ orchard grass/ timothy/ cover mix hay and can average 140-150 small squares from 1 1/2 acres per year
I roll most all of my hay but my 4x5 rolls will average 13-15 small squares per roll so I figure feeding 10-12 rolls per cow to allow for waste

 

[wh]

I know I’m farther south (Ky) than you with winter hay feeding ranging from 100-135 days depending on fall forage and how late spring weather arrives. But I can winter feed my beef cows on 1 small square bale per cow per day, so I figure on having a minimum of 135 squares per caw for winter feeding. We bale fescue/ orchard grass/ timothy/ cover mix hay and can average 140-150 small squares from 1 1/2 acres per year
I roll most all of my hay but my 4x5 rolls will average 13-15 small squares per roll so I figure feeding 10-12 rolls per cow to allow for waste

Built this (and several more) for local cow operation. Owner claimed he fed about 1/3 less hay using it. Said cows did not waste any and he could rotate feeding area to avoid mud pit/torn up area in pasture. There was an article in farmshow magazine about it Look for hay unroller cullman area vocational farmshow

 

[Destroked 450]

Built this (and several more) for local cow operation. Owner claimed he fed about 1/3 less hay using it. Said cows did not waste any and he could rotate feeding area to avoid mud pit/torn up area in pasture. There was an article in farmshow magazine about it Look for hay unroller cullman area vocational farmshow View attachment 115976

I’ve seen those before
We have a sacrificial lot for winter feeding to keep cows out of the pastures during winter months, we have a good bit of freezing and thawing making fields a muddy mess if traveled in, we spread manure/hay mix on fields when the ground firms up
If nothing changes from the plant closure we will convert one of our 500 ft poultry barns into a inside winter feed pad to help combat the mud problem we have

 

[will-max dairy]

I know I’m farther south (Ky) than you with winter hay feeding ranging from 100-135 days depending on fall forage and how late spring weather arrives. But I can winter feed my beef cows on 1 small square bale per cow per day, so I figure on having a minimum of 135 squares per caw for winter feeding. We bale fescue/ orchard grass/ timothy/ cover mix hay and can average 140-150 small squares from 1 1/2 acres per year
I roll most all of my hay but my 4x5 rolls will average 13-15 small squares per roll so I figure feeding 10-12 rolls per cow to allow for waste

Sure... when I figure 365 small squares per year... I'm figuring both what they eat in pasture and what they get fed as hay. With our weather, we generally feed hay for six months... so roughly 1/2 of those 365 small squares per year are eaten as pasture... and 1/2 eaten as hay... either in the barn or as outfeeding. For safety... I try to have 200 small squares on hand, per head, per winter. Worked out nicely this spring, as we just put them out to pasture... about three weeks late, because of the cold, wet weather. So... we used those extra 20 small squares per head.

For us, outfeeding is extremely variable. We did practically zero of it last year, as it was a wet fall that transitioned right from mud to our first snow, which was about a foot deep... and the snow kept piling on from there.

A couple of years ago, we were able to outfeed on a fenced in hayfield by dropping small squares in different areas every day all of the way to the first week of February. The ground was frozen, the snow wasn't too deep, it wasn't all that cold or windy... and it didn't rain (which is worse than snow)... it was nice. We didn't bring them in until we got a cold snap down to 25 below at night.

 

[will-max dairy]

Built this (and several more) for local cow operation. Owner claimed he fed about 1/3 less hay using it. Said cows did not waste any and he could rotate feeding area to avoid mud pit/torn up area in pasture. There was an article in farmshow magazine about it Look for hay unroller cullman area vocational farmshow View attachment 115976

I'm loathe to feed round bales whole. If no feeder is used, all too often they end up as a local wallow with a "cinder cone" of uneaten hay in the middle... with the cows laying on that uneaten "cinder cone" all nice and comfy... lol

We don't have a round baler, but have used them... when I do, I try to roll them out and feed them as outfeeding.

 

[showcrop]

The only problem with this is when it rains, the cows will make holes in the 2/3 you cut for hay and you then have rough fields to drive over.

Some ground isn't suitable for this dual use program, which I used for a long time. That evaluation is just part of your original setup. Animals never made our ground rough..

 

[ss55]

So I own a 4' bush hog, 5' 3pt finish mower and a 6' Disc Mower on a Caddy. The property has had a 6' bush hog and a batwing bush hog. Currently we bush hog some with the toy but we have maybe 35 acres the cows graze that is somewhat hilly and needs knocked down. Not enough cows and well, you know, they leave things. We have run the disc mower high and just cut areas.

Do I need a bigger bush hog? say 7-10'. Big single spindle or dual? Am I abusing a hay tool? Is it a sin?

Go ahead, give it to me, I'm a tenderfoot farmer

Depending on the winter, grazing corn fields until snow gets too deep for cattle to graze can provide some weeks to months of extra winter nutrition too.

 

[1948CaseVAI]

You might consider whether or not you are over-thinking this. I do that and it causes more trouble than it is worth.

 

[jhwis]

I use round bale feeders in the winter and spring. I cut and remove the top 18 inches of string of the bale even inside the feeder and the cows clean it up with minimal waste. When done I simply pull the wad of left over string and discard it. It keeps the hay together to the end Works great. It works well without a bale feeder also.

I'm loathe to feed round bales whole. If no feeder is used, all too often they end up as a local wallow with a "cinder cone" of uneaten hay in the middle... with the cows laying on that uneaten "cinder cone" all nice and comfy... lol

We don't have a round baler, but have used them... when I do, I try to roll them out and feed them as outfeeding.

 

[will-max dairy]

I use round bale feeders in the winter and spring. I cut and remove the top 18 inches of string of the bale even inside the feeder and the cows clean it up with minimal waste. When done I simply pull the wad of left over string and discard it. It keeps the hay together to the end Works great. It works well without a bale feeder also.

Sounds like you have a disciplined method of feeding them. Many people use round bales as an excuse to "set it and forget it"... and many times, people don't understand that most animals won't eat slobbered on hay. So, if you put a round bale out in a pasture for two horses... they can only eat a small fraction of it within the first day or two.... after that... the rest of it has often been rained on, or slobbered on... and they aren't interested.

Times that I've seen round bales done well is if you can feed about one round bale per twenty animals per day... so they clean it up in 24 hours.

There are many ways to skin a cat....I get what you're saying.