Battery going? Does this pass the smell test?

If dash lights did not dim while in start position I would be surprised if it is a pure battery problem.
Modern cars do not have "dash lights" anymore. They have computer screens which must stay lit when you hit the starter or the vehicle won't start.

"at least some recharge" may be a fallacy here. The car was started, no doubt fan was cranked to maximum, rear defroster on, radio on, lights on.... AND the battery was down from sitting in the cold for a week to begin with. That's maximum electrical load that the car can experience, and the alternator would be barely treading water, and in fact there may have been a net drain on the battery. Only after the rear defroster kicks off would it be able to start making progress on charging the battery.

That's just a theory. The next theory is a dead spot on the starter. I had a similar issue with my 2015 truck a couple of years ago. Turn the key and nothing. First couple of times the jumper pack made it start, but that turned out to be a coincidence. 99 times out of 100 it was fine. It didn't do it for the longest time, but then one day it wouldn't start at all. I ended up putting a new AC Delco starter on it from Rock Auto and never had a problem again.
 
It was -7F this morning. Got in the car sitting outside and it started OK. Drove 17miles to the office. I guess I will find out if it starts later!! Will check if I can get a shop to check the battery and alternator as its too cold out to be messing with that myself right now.
 
Abt 5yr old OEM battery. No evidence of issues before.

I let it sit in +5F for about 3hrs and just went and started it no issues. Let engine warm up for about 20min and shut off.
Will see what happens in the morning, expected -10F tonight.
The question that not many can answer is the battery healthy are is it good. They can drag out all their little toys and confirm its bad but never be able to confirm without a doubt its healthy/good.

Without a doubt a 5 year old battery is not at100% Without a doubt this event is going to happen again. As a preventive measure most would replace the battery, good are bad its in your future. Without diagnosing the issue there is no silver bullet. Proper diagnostic of the starting charging system is about a thing of the past as very few have the proper tools are knowledge. This has became a issue of drumming down are a system that little truly understand. Its not going to get any better : (
 
What sort of car and what engine? Is the garage heated?

Is it nightmare in hell to clean the terminals, ground wire and starter connections? Can you get to and jumper the selenoid and/or clean those connections too?

Sometimes if starter is going a couple raps with a hammer will jostle the armature. I drove a truck with a hammer handy.......or parked on a hill.

What does the voltmeter read when running? >~14 Alternator/wires OK

Fully charge battery, check voltage with a meter. Should be >~ 12.5. Then motor off turn on headlights for ~5 minutes. Check voltage again, should not have dropped too much. A poor mans load test.
If you pound on the starter with a hammer, you will be buying a new one. It will knock the PM fields loose!
 
Just got back from a longer trip to the store 7 miles away than expected.

I was out of town for a few days for family gathering. Got home Monday (6 days ago). Car parked outside this whole time not run/moved. Its been pretty cold the past couple and was -13F last night and about -6F when I went to leave for the store. Turned over a little slower than normal but hey its -6. Started no issues. Let it warm a couple minutes while I grabbed the mail. Drove to the store 7 miles. Did my shopping and got in the car. Dash lights up, info screen is on, no crank. Nothing.

Tried it a couple of times. This is a stick shift so wondering if the clutch switch could be sticking in the cold. Pushed clutch in/out a few times, etc. Still no joy. I called for a tow. Took about 30min for the truck to get there while I waited in the store as its now up to about 0F out. Truck guy suggests a jumper pack to see what would happen before towing it to my house. $75 vs $160. Sure. Jump pack on for a moment and I get in and it starts right up.

Drove home no issues. The tow man was saying maybe the battery did not get a chance to fully recharge in those 7 miles after it was run down by all the computers for a week and its cold as well. 2020 car and original battery so its going on 5yrs old.

My problem with that (battery low from drain for a week in the cold) is why would it have started initially at my house and not at the store. Engine was warmed so not thick oil. It did have some time to recharge and that should not take too long.

What say you? I parked the car in a different spot where its easier to put a charger on it and not blocking the garage door to get my other vehicle out for work tomorrow if I need to. Maybe I should get a new battery....

I am going to go out and see if it starts again shortly after sitting for 30 minutes....
Check if the belt is tight. Alt won't charge with a loose belt & it drained the battery down when you drove it instead of charging it up.
 
Modern cars do not have "dash lights" anymore. They have computer screens which must stay lit when you hit the starter or the vehicle won't start.

"at least some recharge" may be a fallacy here. The car was started, no doubt fan was cranked to maximum, rear defroster on, radio on, lights on.... AND the battery was down from sitting in the cold for a week to begin with. That's maximum electrical load that the car can experience, and the alternator would be barely treading water, and in fact there may have been a net drain on the battery. Only after the rear defroster kicks off would it be able to start making progress on charging the battery.

That's just a theory. The next theory is a dead spot on the starter. I had a similar issue with my 2015 truck a couple of years ago. Turn the key and nothing. First couple of times the jumper pack made it start, but that turned out to be a coincidence. 99 times out of 100 it was fine. It didn't do it for the longest time, but then one day it wouldn't start at all. I ended up putting a new AC Delco starter on it from Rock Auto and never had a problem again.

That is when you keep a hammer and a piece of cardboard behind the seat. So you can crawl under and give it a wack or two.

If you pound on the starter with a hammer, you will be buying a new one. It will knock the PM fields loose!

A couple sharp taps work. At that point the starter is already on the way out. Most starters and rebuilds are cheaply done these days.......
 
Are you using the lights in "Auto mode"?

Some Toyota hybrids will shut down as if you disconnected the starter battery if the lights are left in auto mode around busy parking lots. You can use any 12+ battery (even a small 2 ah DeWalt battery) to get one to reboot by touching the positive brass blade in the fuse box on the drivers fender well and the negative to the struts nut/bolt. If done correctly. The car will use the big hybrid battery to reboot the system and start the engine. Once it does. The car will operate as it normally would.

It's just my theory that in auto mode. The lights will not shut off due to movement in front of them in parking lots or places with a lot of traffic. At home you don't don't have that so the lights shut off after a minute or two as they are designed to do.
 
Jump pack was clamped on the clamps/terminals of the battery. It was literally on for like 30s while I got in to start it too so no recharging of significance would have happened.

For sure I get that battery maybe an issue. Its interesting in that the car this one replaced I had a not too old battery in that. Started on a cold morning, drove to the office, went in to get something and went back out 10min later and it was a click-click. Got a jump from the building maintenance guy and went home to swap for my other vehicle and got a new battery. As it turns out, the "bad" battery has been fine in the old farm truck at the farm the last 3 summers!! Spins it over like a top.

Will see what happens in the morning. -10F in the forecast for tonight.
"3 summers" being the operative term here...

Go out and start your farm truck at -5F before declaring the battery good as new...
 
The question that not many can answer is the battery healthy are is it good. They can drag out all their little toys and confirm its bad but never be able to confirm without a doubt its healthy/good.

Without a doubt a 5 year old battery is not at100% Without a doubt this event is going to happen again. As a preventive measure most would replace the battery, good are bad its in your future. Without diagnosing the issue there is no silver bullet. Proper diagnostic of the starting charging system is about a thing of the past as very few have the proper tools are knowledge. This has became a issue of drumming down are a system that little truly understand. Its not going to get any better : (
Batteries, charging systems and starters definitely fall in the category of... the more information you learn about them, the more you realize you don't know about them... I would rather go out and drive 30 cedar posts with a 12lb maul in 80 degree heat... than diagnose a "simple" battery issue in a vehicle at -5...

Fortunately, for myself, I have two trusted sources of info. A small shop about 5 miles away that actually rebuilds starters/alternators. And another shop about ten miles away that specializes in only batteries. The last time I had a conundrum like this, after checking for loose connections... I removed the starter and battery and took them to the respective shops. Starter shop said it was good. Battery shop said it was bad. Followed their advice... put on a new battery and old starter; and moved on with my life.

Even then, the alternator didn't come into play.


If the mystery deepened, I would have needed to look at the alternator... alternator belt... etc, etc,
 
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2020 Subaru, its even a 6 speed manual!! I don't have lights in auto mode. I am going to probably pick up a new battery for it on the way home from the office (if it starts to get home...). A couple coworkers told me they have jumper packs just in case though!
 
Batteries are funny. I'll have a set of batteries that finally refuse to crank the tractor.........................put new ones in..........everything fine.

What I do with the old batteries is the interesting thing. I keep maybe one, sit it on the ground somewhere, until I need a battery on the engine drive welder. I'll put that old battery in the welder, and run it for another couple of years with no issues.

Sort of an accidental discovery I guess. I hate buying batteries for a welder..........and when they go bad, it's usually at a very bad time, like a power outage. My welder is mounted on a skid, which just happens to block the battery cover on the welder. The battery cables are almost impossible to access.........making it a total PITA to jump start the thing. Besides...........it's a death sentence to run a welder on a dead battery.

Anyways, by accident, I discovered that "dead" batteries work fine on a small motor. Kohler 23hp motor.

Abandoned the battery box that is on the welder, extended the cables to reach a remote battery box. Sized the box to fit any battery on the place......tractor, truck, car. ANYTHING I can find on the place in a pinch.

box32.jpg

box33.jpg

Swings inline for transport, swings out to open the motor access for cooling when it's hot, or needs maintenance.

It appears that the batteries lose the ability to hold a charge strong enough to turn a large load, but will still hold a charge strong enough to turn a smaller load. So............why throw them out, and why spend $100 for a new welder battery(shrug). And it works in reverse................... If it's an ice storm, and the batteries are good on the equipment, but bad on the welder.......I can pull a good battery off anything to run the welder for lights, and heat. It's a win win situation.

Anyways.......................old battery on car=buying a new one, before trying to figure out anything.
 
We had a similar problem on a 2018 Subaru Outback a couple of years ago, but ours had to sit unused for 2-3 days, then it would crank slow. I did all the troubleshooting, and had the battery tested at 2 places, they said it was OK. We took it to the dealer for diagnosis and they said one of the computers was bad, and it was $1300, but they didn't have one. My wife had done some research online and read where the OEM batteries in those cars were inadequate. Because the battery was over 4 years old, we replaced it with a new one from WM, and the problem went away! I just saw where you said it's a manual transmission, I would suspect the neutral safety or clutch switch, they must have something like that.
 
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Batteries are funny. I'll have a set of batteries that finally refuse to crank the tractor.........................put new ones in..........everything fine.

What I do with the old batteries is the interesting thing. I keep maybe one, sit it on the ground somewhere, until I need a battery on the engine drive welder. I'll put that old battery in the welder, and run it for another couple of years with no issues.

Sort of an accidental discovery I guess. I hate buying batteries for a welder..........and when they go bad, it's usually at a very bad time, like a power outage. My welder is mounted on a skid, which just happens to block the battery cover on the welder. The battery cables are almost impossible to access.........making it a total PITA to jump start the thing. Besides...........it's a death sentence to run a welder on a dead battery.

Anyways, by accident, I discovered that "dead" batteries work fine on a small motor. Kohler 23hp motor.

Abandoned the battery box that is on the welder, extended the cables to reach a remote battery box. Sized the box to fit any battery on the place......tractor, truck, car. ANYTHING I can find on the place in a pinch.

View attachment 99766
View attachment 99767
Swings inline for transport, swings out to open the motor access for cooling when it's hot, or needs maintenance.

It appears that the batteries lose the ability to hold a charge strong enough to turn a large load, but will still hold a charge strong enough to turn a smaller load. So............why throw them out, and why spend $100 for a new welder battery(shrug). And it works in reverse................... If it's an ice storm, and the batteries are good on the equipment, but bad on the welder.......I can pull a good battery off anything to run the welder for lights, and heat. It's a win win situation.

Anyways.......................old battery on car=buying a new one, before trying to figure out anything.
12V electric fence controllers used to be a nice, easy "retirement load" for aging car batteries.
 
We had a similar problem on a 2018 Subaru Outback a couple of years ago, but ours had to sit unused for 2-3 days, then it would crank slow. I did all the troubleshooting, and had the battery tested at 2 places, they said it was OK. We took it to the dealer for diagnosis and they said one of the computers was bad, and it was $1300, but they didn't have one. My wife had done some research online and read where the OEM batteries in those cars were inadequate. Because the battery was over 4 years old, we replaced it with a new one from WM, and the problem went away! I just saw where you said it's a manual transmission, I would suspect the neutral safety or clutch switch, they must have something like that.
Yeah wondered about said switch myself.... I stroked the pedal several times when it was not cranking in the store lot to no avail.

I stopped by Interstate battery on the way home and they did a quick load test on it. They thought it dropped voltage too much during their test. But, engine running the charging voltage was fine. I bought a new battery and will put it in probably tomorrow. I checked the voltage with engine running at home and got 14.3V so alternator is working. Shut off engine and voltage was about 13.3 or something immediately after. I will check it again before swapping it out. I need to dig around for making some 12v supply hack to keep the settings on things while the swap happens and cables are off so I don't have to futz with those to redo them all. Pretty sure I have a 12v wall supply and a diode and some clip leads to cobble together around here.

I know the price of batteries has gone up a lot in recent years. Even 6yrs ago when I had to put a new one in the truck and also on the old Belarus tractor at the farm. Worse now. This one was $220 with $15 core. I am going to keep it for a spare as the one in the pickup at the farm is pretty old and for summer use maybe OK if the current one is dead in the spring. I am pretty sure I have other actually dead battery to recover that core fee.
 
Batteries are funny. I'll have a set of batteries that finally refuse to crank the tractor.........................put new ones in..........everything fine.

What I do with the old batteries is the interesting thing. I keep maybe one, sit it on the ground somewhere, until I need a battery on the engine drive welder. I'll put that old battery in the welder, and run it for another couple of years with no issues.

Sort of an accidental discovery I guess. I hate buying batteries for a welder..........and when they go bad, it's usually at a very bad time, like a power outage. My welder is mounted on a skid, which just happens to block the battery cover on the welder. The battery cables are almost impossible to access.........making it a total PITA to jump start the thing. Besides...........it's a death sentence to run a welder on a dead battery.

Anyways, by accident, I discovered that "dead" batteries work fine on a small motor. Kohler 23hp motor.

Abandoned the battery box that is on the welder, extended the cables to reach a remote battery box. Sized the box to fit any battery on the place......tractor, truck, car. ANYTHING I can find on the place in a pinch.



Swings inline for transport, swings out to open the motor access for cooling when it's hot, or needs maintenance.

It appears that the batteries lose the ability to hold a charge strong enough to turn a large load, but will still hold a charge strong enough to turn a smaller load. So............why throw them out, and why spend $100 for a new welder battery(shrug). And it works in reverse................... If it's an ice storm, and the batteries are good on the equipment, but bad on the welder.......I can pull a good battery off anything to run the welder for lights, and heat. It's a win win situation.

Anyways.......................old battery on car=buying a new one, before trying to figure out anything.
Some years ago, the winter beater car at the time was sitting all summer and I was going to move it and would not start, dead battery w/low voltage. So I put the charger on it (old school charger, not smart) and it took basically no current at all. I had other things to do so just left it connected most of the afternoon and later checked it and it was now taking a charge!! Put battery back in the car and it started up fine. That battery ended up staying in that car for at least a couple more winters and worked fine before it died for good and I had to replace it.
 
Yeah wondered about said switch myself.... I stroked the pedal several times when it was not cranking in the store lot to no avail.

I stopped by Interstate battery on the way home and they did a quick load test on it. They thought it dropped voltage too much during their test. But, engine running the charging voltage was fine. I bought a new battery and will put it in probably tomorrow. I checked the voltage with engine running at home and got 14.3V so alternator is working. Shut off engine and voltage was about 13.3 or something immediately after. I will check it again before swapping it out. I need to dig around for making some 12v supply hack to keep the settings on things while the swap happens and cables are off so I don't have to futz with those to redo them all. Pretty sure I have a 12v wall supply and a diode and some clip leads to cobble together around here.

I know the price of batteries has gone up a lot in recent years. Even 6yrs ago when I had to put a new one in the truck and also on the old Belarus tractor at the farm. Worse now. This one was $220 with $15 core. I am going to keep it for a spare as the one in the pickup at the farm is pretty old and for summer use maybe OK if the current one is dead in the spring. I am pretty sure I have other actually dead battery to recover that core fee.
9V radio battery will keep everything alive.
 
Cable connections. Especially the ground. Especially in cold damp weather. I carry a couple of sheetrock screws and a Phillips screwdriver. If I get nothing when trying the key, open the hood, screw a screw down in between the cable clamp and the battery post and see if it helps. If it does, clean your posts and cable ends. This doesn't work on the post-less batteries, but a small boxend to snug down the bolt may. I've heard them sizzle trying to burn through the corrosion. steve
 
Yeah wondered about said switch myself.... I stroked the pedal several times when it was not cranking in the store lot to no avail.

I stopped by Interstate battery on the way home and they did a quick load test on it. They thought it dropped voltage too much during their test. But, engine running the charging voltage was fine. I bought a new battery and will put it in probably tomorrow. I checked the voltage with engine running at home and got 14.3V so alternator is working. Shut off engine and voltage was about 13.3 or something immediately after. I will check it again before swapping it out. I need to dig around for making some 12v supply hack to keep the settings on things while the swap happens and cables are off so I don't have to futz with those to redo them all. Pretty sure I have a 12v wall supply and a diode and some clip leads to cobble together around here.

I know the price of batteries has gone up a lot in recent years. Even 6yrs ago when I had to put a new one in the truck and also on the old Belarus tractor at the farm. Worse now. This one was $220 with $15 core. I am going to keep it for a spare as the one in the pickup at the farm is pretty old and for summer use maybe OK if the current one is dead in the spring. I am pretty sure I have other actually dead battery to recover that core fee.
Interstates are good, but they're not worth $220!
 

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