Engine stuck on 63 cub with new pistons and valves

[Paul 300 U]

I got back to the cub today to see if I could make progress on the leaking head gasket. I figured I would try to run it to see if it would self seal when it got hot.
I checked the oil pan with my scope camera to verify no antifreeze made it's way down there. It was dry so I added oil. I decided that it would be smart to turn the engine over a time or two with the hand crank just to make sure there were no big issues. Well, apparently there an issue some where because the crank moved about an inch then stopped like it hit metal. I gently tried to move it and gently rocked the tractor to see if it was a minor sticking issue. No luck. It's locked tight.
For the record. New pistons, valves, valve guides, keepers, rod bearings as well as filters and plugs. I used assemblers on the valves, bearings and a light coat if oil in the piston cylinder bores. As I was reassembling everything seemed to be moving fine. I didn't want to roll the over until I had it assembled.

As always I appreciate the help! Paul

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Take the plugs out and see if a cylinder is full of water, if dry, take the starter out and see if you can turn it backwards with a screwdriver.

 

[rustred]

I kinda lost track where u were on this engine. But did u have ur turning over once assembled. As that is what should have been done when setting the valves. I do not know how long it was sitting already with this water or coolant in it. It is very possible it has liquid in one cylinder , which can cause this no turn situation. Any new rebuild should be filled with water for the first start. Antifreeze will leak where water won’t. Warm it up retorque the head reset the valves then drain water and add your coolant.

 

[old]

I got back to the cub today to see if I could make progress on the leaking head gasket. I figured I would try to run it to see if it would self seal when it got hot.
I checked the oil pan with my scope camera to verify no antifreeze made it's way down there. It was dry so I added oil. I decided that it would be smart to turn the engine over a time or two with the hand crank just to make sure there were no big issues. Well, apparently there an issue some where because the crank moved about an inch then stopped like it hit metal. I gently tried to move it and gently rocked the tractor to see if it was a minor sticking issue. No luck. It's locked tight.
For the record. New pistons, valves, valve guides, keepers, rod bearings as well as filters and plugs. I used assemblers on the valves, bearings and a light coat if oil in the piston cylinder bores. As I was reassembling everything seemed to be moving fine. I didn't want to roll the over until I had it assembled.

As always I appreciate the help! Paul

I too say take the plugs out and see if you can turn it over. If you can't you might try turning it backwards if you can get something on the crank shaft pulley or hand crank part of the pulley

 

[used red MN]

Why repeat what Fritz’s comment ? There is like buttons on the bottom. Use them.

Probably has him on ignore or he just fits another form of the word. I should probably make a vow to be nicer to the old buzzard in 2025!

 

[rustred]

Probably has him on ignore or he just fits another form of the word. I should probably make a vow to be nicer to the old buzzard in 2025!

I’m an owl , be nicer to me , heck with buzzards . It’s annoying reading copy cat posts. Lol. Someone else has the buzzard on ignore also.

 

[grandpa Love]

Why repeat what Fritz’s comment ? There is like buttons on the bottom. Use them.

Takes a big , tough "man" to cyber bully. How about giving it a rest,most of us are tired of it .........

 

[Paul 300 U]

Take the plugs out and see if a cylinder is full of water, if dry, take the starter out and see if you can turn it backwards with a screwdriver.

Thanks Fritz. That's where I'll begin. I appreciate the feedback. Paul

 

[Paul 300 U]

I kinda lost track where u were on this engine. But did u have ur turning over once assembled. As that is what should have been done when setting the valves. I do not know how long it was sitting already with this water or coolant in it. It is very possible it has liquid in one cylinder , which can cause this no turn situation. Any new rebuild should be filled with water for the first start. Antifreeze will leak where water won’t. Warm it up retorque the head reset the valves then drain water and add your coolant.

Rustred thanks for the reply. Now that you say it, I suppose you'd have to be correct. I would have had to turn over the engine to set the valves. It didn't occur to me as I was concentrating on following a pattern I read regarding which valves to adjust depending on where you start, then focusing on getting them gapped correctly. I've never done that before so it didn't occur to me that I would have had to turn the engine.
It's been sitting with the coolant in it for over a week. Hated to do that but out of town for the holidays. I also didn't know the water first, coolant second process until now. I will follow the process you described above once it's drained and refilled with water.
Finally, unfortunately the radiator plug is now stuck tight. Seems odd since I just had it off. Fortunately I haven't rounded the corners off yet. My next attempt will be to buy a torch and heat it. First time for that too! Thanks Paul

 

[Paul 300 U]

I too say take the plugs out and see if you can turn it over. If you can't you might try turning it backwards if you can get something on the crank shaft pulley or hand crank part of the pulley

Old. Thank you for the reply. Since much of this is new for me, I usually make my next steps by combining what sounds logical from folks that have experience. You are correct of course, I can't crank backwards with hand crank but if I need to try that, I'll figure a process to at least turn the crank shaft pulley backwards a bit now that you've confirmed it's another way to check things out. Thanks Paul

 

[Paul 300 U]

Takes a big , tough "man" to cyber bully. How about giving it a rest,most of us are tired of it .........

Even though I've been in this forum for a few years now you all seem to know each other pretty well. I usually hope this is just good natured ribbing.I do appreciate all the advice I get here. I'd be lost without it. Heck, I'm usually lost with it

 

[old]

Old. Thank you for the reply. Since much of this is new for me, I usually make my next steps by combining what sounds logical from folks that have experience. You are correct of course, I can't crank backwards with hand crank but if I need to try that, I'll figure a process to at least turn the crank shaft pulley backwards a bit now that you've confirmed it's another way to check things out. Thanks Paul

Is that one of the starter/generator set ups or does it have the flywheel type starter. If it has the flywheel type starter pull the starter and use a pry bar in the teeth of the flywheel to turn it backwards

 

[Rich'sToys]

Takes a big , tough "man" to cyber bully. How about giving it a rest,most of us are tired of it .........

Exactly!! This has gone on long enough!

 

[Paul 300 U]

I got back to the cub today to see if I could make progress on the leaking head gasket. I figured I would try to run it to see if it would self seal when it got hot.
I checked the oil pan with my scope camera to verify no antifreeze made it's way down there. It was dry so I added oil. I decided that it would be smart to turn the engine over a time or two with the hand crank just to make sure there were no big issues. Well, apparently there an issue some where because the crank moved about an inch then stopped like it hit metal. I gently tried to move it and gently rocked the tractor to see if it was a minor sticking issue. No luck. It's locked tight.
For the record. New pistons, valves, valve guides, keepers, rod bearings as well as filters and plugs. I used assemblers on the valves, bearings and a light coat if oil in the piston cylinder bores. As I was reassembling everything seemed to be moving fine. I didn't want to roll the over until I had it assembled.

As always I appreciate the help! Paul

Update 1. I drained coolant, removed the plugs. No water to be seen in plug holes and still stuck.
I removed starter. Won't turn. Got screw driver and went backward on the flywheel I'm guessing about an 10th of turn and hit a hard stop. Rotated forward and it travels the same amount as backward then hits hard stop. Thoughts? Thanks again Paul

 

[Janicholson]

Update 1. I drained coolant, removed the plugs. No water to be seen in plug holes and still stuck.
I removed starter. Won't turn. Got screw driver and went backward on the flywheel I'm guessing about an 10th of turn and hit a hard stop. Rotated forward and it travels the same amount as backward then hits hard stop. Thoughts? Thanks again Paul

A tenth of a turn is maybe 10 to 15 teeth on the ring gear. That is not enough to get close to a full stroke in a cylinder. Thus what ever it is is happening within a short piston travel, or cam shaft movement. tooth off of a cam gear, or distributor locked up from a long screw in the breaker plate or other "quick" thing stopping it. I would use an endoscope (cheap tool with a smart phone) to look around in the cylinders. I would also remove the distributor to see if that could be locking it up. I would search until i find the issue and for sure not force it through. Jim

 

[old]

Update 1. I drained coolant, removed the plugs. No water to be seen in plug holes and still stuck.
I removed starter. Won't turn. Got screw driver and went backward on the flywheel I'm guessing about an 10th of turn and hit a hard stop. Rotated forward and it travels the same amount as backward then hits hard stop. Thoughts? Thanks again Paul

Is this still the flat head cub?? I have one that when I got it it was locked up till I filled the cylinders with ATF and put the plugs back in and then poured ATF down the exhaust till it started to leak some place. I let it sit a week and then put a battery in it and hit the starter button with the plugs out. It spun over but a couple of the valves where stuck so I had ot pull the head off to get them freed up

 

[Janicholson]

Is this still the flat head cub?? I have one that when I got it it was locked up till I filled the cylinders with ATF and put the plugs back in and then poured ATF down the exhaust till it started to leak some place. I let it sit a week and then put a battery in it and hit the starter button with the plugs out. It spun over but a couple of the valves where stuck so I had ot pull the head off to get them freed up

Yes it is a cub. new internal components and valve adjustment. It was turned to do the valve adjustment a week ago. Jim

 

[Janicholson]

A tenth of a turn is maybe 10 to 15 teeth on the ring gear. That is not enough to get close to a full stroke in a cylinder. Thus what ever it is is happening within a short piston travel, or cam shaft movement. tooth off of a cam gear, or distributor locked up from a long screw in the breaker plate or other "quick" thing stopping it. I would use an endoscope (cheap tool with a smart phone) to look around in the cylinders. I would also remove the distributor to see if that could be locking it up. I would search until i find the issue and for sure not force it through. Jim

Also understand that a cub has a difficult time priming the oil pump. The oil pump is driven from the rear of the cam shaft, and is above the oil level in the pan. To assure oil pump prime, the gallery can be pumped full of oil using a trigger squirt oil can and a small hose into an oil gallery plug near the filter. It can take 2 or more fillings of the oilcan to have a noticable pressure increase of the trigger of the can. Jim

 

[used red MN]

A tenth of a turn is maybe 10 to 15 teeth on the ring gear. That is not enough to get close to a full stroke in a cylinder. Thus what ever it is is happening within a short piston travel, or cam shaft movement. tooth off of a cam gear, or distributor locked up from a long screw in the breaker plate or other "quick" thing stopping it. I would use an endoscope (cheap tool with a smart phone) to look around in the cylinders. I would also remove the distributor to see if that could be locking it up. I would search until i find the issue and for sure not force it through. Jim

Not to be a smarty but looking at all possibilities. Are you certain it is in neutral? Push the clutch down and see if this allows it to turn. Have you been shifting the gear lever while it was setting? Maybe it had pressure on the gears and it has gotten locked in two gears. Even though the endoscope route is probably the best idea you could do this as a lesser alternative. Get a foot and a half long piece automotive vacuum hose or a piece of small diameter PEX and stick it in all the spark plug holes hopefully down on top of the pistons. Then blast compressed air in them and see if it stirs up fluid/coolant in the cylinders. If so then you know which one you have to dry the coolant out of with strips of rags on a wire. Then get some ATF down in it for lube. The cylinder can’t have that much damage in that short of a time. Should be able to free it up and get it running without much negative affect on your work to the engine. All this is if the piston being stuck in the cylinder is the actual problem. I will add I would echo what rustred asked, did the engine turn at lease two revolutions after the valves were set?

 

[kshansen]

Maybe I missed it but this engine was never started? Or was it run?