External hydraulic remote on Massey 65

gullyc

Member
Hi Folks. Anyone seen this external hydraulic control valve before? This is on a Massey 65 and boy is it crusty. Trying to figure out if I can rebuild it or need to just junk it. I don't know much about these valves and this is my first tractor. To me, this looks like a double valve that is single acting on both. The left valve is missing the handle but has a locking mechanism that appears to lock the thing in either 3 point control mode or remote mode ( I think). I confirmed that when pulled back, the 3 point works, when pushed forward, no 3 point. I found one of these old control valves on ebay that came off a TO35 and it looks to be identical to mine. Anyway, any info would help. Appreciate you all!
 

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Hi Folks. Anyone seen this external hydraulic control valve before? This is on a Massey 65 and boy is it crusty. Trying to figure out if I can rebuild it or need to just junk it. I don't know much about these valves and this is my first tractor. To me, this looks like a double valve that is single acting on both. The left valve is missing the handle but has a locking mechanism that appears to lock the thing in either 3 point control mode or remote mode ( I think). I confirmed that when pulled back, the 3 point works, when pushed forward, no 3 point. I found one of these old control valves on ebay that came off a TO35 and it looks to be identical to mine. Anyway, any info would help. Appreciate you all!
That's the EARLY valve, the LEFT handle is locked back for the three point use. With the LEFT lever centered, lift arms TIED DOWN, Position lever UP, then the pump will allow the right lever to operate a cylinder.
 
According to Agco parts books. it is off a to35. Have a look for yourself. Maybe Agco still carries the part you need to repair it?
Wayne
 
Hmm, didn't know that. Don't have access to agco parts books. There is a part number stamped on the remaining unbroken lever. When I Google it comes up with an Agco part for a new lever. Can you share a picture of the agco parts book?
 
That's the EARLY valve, the LEFT handle is locked back for the three point use. With the LEFT lever centered, lift arms TIED DOWN, Position lever UP, then the pump will allow the right lever to operate a cylinder.
Great! Thanks for the info. Wasn't aware I had to tie down the lower links. Tractor came with two long bars that connect to the lower links and then to some bolts at the back of the rear axle. Is that what you use to tie them down? I guess this also means that if I plan on using a hydraulic top link controlled by this external valve, I won't be able to raise and lower the hitch since the lower links need to be tied down? Planned on using a box blade on the back with the hydraulic top link for tilt.
 
Great! Thanks for the info. Wasn't aware I had to tie down the lower links. Tractor came with two long bars that connect to the lower links and then to some bolts at the back of the rear axle. Is that what you use to tie them down? I guess this also means that if I plan on using a hydraulic top link controlled by this external valve, I won't be able to raise and lower the hitch since the lower links need to be tied down? Planned on using a box blade on the back with the hydraulic top link for tilt.
You won't like that setup, I'll bet..
 
Posting an update on this project. I figured out how to use the agco parts books and it is indeed off a TO20. I pulled it off the tractor and got everything moving more smoothly than reinstalled. Hoses coming off the back of this thing toward the rear of the tractor had been sawn off and plugged. I ordered new hoses for it with the proper 90° fittings and hose ends to reestablish this rear remote. Haven't installed them yet but will do when I get a hydraulic top link. At that point I will be able to test the valve to see if it still works. If not, I will just replace it. For now, been working on other parts of this tractor and we'll get back to this project soon. Thanks for all the info from everyone. Very helpful.
 
As it turns out, the external hydraulic valve is a two spool system for two single acting cylinders. I finally found a description of how the thing works in an I&T shop manual (MF-201). This won't work for what I want to do. I'm trying to add a box blade with a double acting hydraulic top link for tilt. I can change out this valve and get one with a double acting control no problem but I am not understanding something I have read about the old Massey's. I keep seeing that to use these remote valves you need to lock the rear lower links in place. If I do that, I won't be able to raise/lower the rear implement? I'm totally confused. I see other folks using box blades with hydraulic top links but are these old Massey's limited like others are not? I suspect I am over-thinking this.
 
You're not "over-thinking" this. It seems many people have a hard time understanding how the old Massey system works. It was designed to operate the three point lift system, not to supply any auxiliary hydraulics and/or remote valves. It is not a typical open center system. The pump does not move oil continuously, but only when the linkage tells it to do so, and only to the lift cylinder. Any of the "add on" valves that bolt onto the lift cover merely divert oil from the pump to other places. The pump still needs to be sort of "fooled" into thinking it's raising the lift arms so a few tricks to do that come into play. The point is you either have lift arm operation or you have oil flow to other venues. You don't have both at the same time. No matter how you do it, a hydraulic top link and/or cylinders on three point mounted implements aren't going to work like they will on an open (or closed) center system. You need to learn to live with what you have.
 
You're not "over-thinking" this. It seems many people have a hard time understanding how the old Massey system works. It was designed to operate the three point lift system, not to supply any auxiliary hydraulics and/or remote valves. It is not a typical open center system. The pump does not move oil continuously, but only when the linkage tells it to do so, and only to the lift cylinder. Any of the "add on" valves that bolt onto the lift cover merely divert oil from the pump to other places. The pump still needs to be sort of "fooled" into thinking it's raising the lift arms so a few tricks to do that come into play. The point is you either have lift arm operation or you have oil flow to other venues. You don't have both at the same time. No matter how you do it, a hydraulic top link and/or cylinders on three point mounted implements aren't going to work like they will on an open (or closed) center system. You need to learn to live with what you have.
Okay thanks Harry. So it is kind of complicated. I don't mind not being able to use the lift links and the hydro top cylinder at the same time. I'm thinking of the box blade application here I will have to lift the blade off the ground with the lower links occasionally and want to be able to tilt the thing as well with the top link. I see several rear remote kits for the massive 65 which have what appears to be a selector valve. The selector lets you use either lower links or other cylinder like a top cylinder. But the confusing part for me comes in when you have to tie down the lower links. If I put a box on it can I select three-point on one of these valves then switch over to external on the selection and tilt? Will the three-point height remain in the same position? Here is a link to one that says it will do just that. Looking for any experience from folks who may have a rig like this or other rig that works for them. Here's the link to what I was looking at https://sparepartsholland.com/product/single-hydraulic-remote-kit-massey-ferguson-35-50-65-135-150/.
 
If you use an aftermarket diverter valve you don't need to tie down the lift links. The problem is this. When you switch the diverter valve (or whatever other style valve you have) over to externals the supply to the lift cylinder stops. Depending on the internals of that valve, the lift may hold in place (if the seals are good), or it may just drop entirely. That valve is the only means of keeping trapped oil in the lift cylinder. It must be internally ported to do so. Are they all designed with that in mind? Who knows?
 
If you use an aftermarket diverter valve you don't need to tie down the lift links. The problem is this. When you switch the diverter valve (or whatever other style valve you have) over to externals the supply to the lift cylinder stops. Depending on the internals of that valve, the lift may hold in place (if the seals are good), or it may just drop entirely. That valve is the only means of keeping trapped oil in the lift cylinder. It must be internally ported to do so. Are they all designed with that in mind? Who knows?
I requested the manual from that manufacturer to see what I can find. Are you saying the lift may hold in place depending on the internals of the external diverter valve or the internals of the tractor lift cylinder itself?
 
Here is another update on this topic. Turns out that this website sells a double acting single spool hydro valve for the Massey 65. I checked with them on the issue of the links being held in place when the selector is moved to the remote control position. The manual for the valve confirms that it was designed with this in mind and should work. YT sent me the pages from the manual that cover this. I'll see if I can post. Anyway, looks like a decent shot it will work. My internal hydraulics work fine and so I expect no problems. Ha! Can't believe I just said that.

 

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I have yet to see (or experiment) with this particular valve, so I won't speak to it's claims. However, once you understand the basics of the "Ferguson system" you will see that the lift arms will indeed hold in place as long as the internal seals hold. The system (as is the case in most other three point lift designs) must be replenished if/when any internal leakage occurs, or the arms will slowly drop as that happens. To get an idea of how well your particular system is sealed, raise the arms with a load attached, shut the tractor off without touching any other controls. See how long it holds that load without leaking down. This will give you an indication of where you stand on that point.
 
I have yet to see (or experiment) with this particular valve, so I won't speak to it's claims. However, once you understand the basics of the "Ferguson system" you will see that the lift arms will indeed hold in place as long as the internal seals hold. The system (as is the case in most other three point lift designs) must be replenished if/when any internal leakage occurs, or the arms will slowly drop as that happens. To get an idea of how well your particular system is sealed, raise the arms with a load attached, shut the tractor off without touching any other controls. See how long it holds that load without leaking down. This will give you an indication of where you stand on that point.
Good suggestion. I'll give that a shot.
 

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