Farmall H grinding while going into any gear

[Alan Martinson]

I have a 1945 Farmall H. Shifted fine into any gear today - until I began to drive it back to the shed. Now, with the clutch pedal depressed, the gears grind badly when trying to shift into any gear. I shut the engine off, put it into 1st gear, and when I restarted the engine, the tractor jerked forward a bit even with the clutch pedal fully depressed. It seems the clutch pedal is no longer disengaging the gears properly. I've never worked on the clutch before, so I don't know what to look for. I did try adjusting the free travel of the clutch pedal to 1 and 1/8" from the 7/8" it was, but I'm not sure it even relates to the issue I'm having. That made no change in the grinding. Can anyone offer advice? Likely problems? Thanks.

 

[rustred]

I have a 1945 Farmall H. Shifted fine into any gear today - until I began to drive it back to the shed. Now, with the clutch pedal depressed, the gears grind badly when trying to shift into any gear. I shut the engine off, put it into 1st gear, and when I restarted the engine, the tractor jerked forward a bit even with the clutch pedal fully depressed. It seems the clutch pedal is no longer disengaging the gears properly. I've never worked on the clutch before, so I don't know what to look for. I did try adjusting the free travel of the clutch pedal to 1 and 1/8" from the 7/8" it was, but I'm not sure it even relates to the issue I'm having. That made no change in the grinding. Can anyone offer advice? Likely problems? Thanks.

If you have oil on the drive surfaces the clutch will drag. Just one thing to check. Have a look in there if possible.

 

[used red MN]

The lining getting thin, old and brittle the coming off the cushion plate in chunks may also be a possible problem. The chunks of lining get out of position and get on top of each other. Then the pressure plate can’t open or pull back far enough to release the clutch.

 

[Janicholson]

The throwout braring may be failin/failed aqnd wearing out the fingers radically. if the tractor was able to pull a load just before this happened, the throwout is a suspect. If there is "extra noise when the clutch is pushed in that is another indicator. The clutch system can be changed without a split of the tractor on that model. Let us know and we can give you the sequence to do that repair. Jim

 

[caterpillar guy]

Janicholson has it for you and can be done without a split just have to work over head to do it.

 

[John M]

Could have lost a pin on one the fingers on the pressure plate.

 

[Alan Martinson]

Thanks all of you. I'll have time to open the access panel and look further in the next day or two. I'll check back in as I learn. At some point, I'd love to learn more about doing this work without splitting the tractor. I assume that would require some sturdy stands that I don't have yet.

 

[Alan Martinson]

I took off the access panel and there was a LOT of grease on it. I had greased all zerks on the tractor in the morning (too much??) and later that day, I had the grinding problem. Anyway, I watched through the access opening and didn't see anything out of order as my wife depressed the clutch pedal. I cleaned up that grease but did nothing else. I started the tractor and had no problems shifting into any gear today and the tractor ran fine in all gears. Interesting. I guess I won't do anything now. I've had this tractor 20yrs with light use and never worked on the clutch. No way to tell if the previous owner did any work on it. I'm sure I'll need to do something at some point. Anyway, thanks to all of you for the advice.

 

[Jim Becker]

Having it "fix" itself is a strong indication that loose pieces of the lining caused the problem (as suggested by used red MN). The loose piece(s) have moved so they are no longer interfering. If so, it will fail again soon, either by jamming again or by starting to slip under load.

 

[Alan Martinson]

Having it "fix" itself is a strong indication that loose pieces of the lining caused the problem (as suggested by used red MN). The loose piece(s) have moved so they are no longer interfering. If so, it will fail again soon, either by jamming again or by starting to slip under load.

Jim Becker and used red MN. Thanks for making that point. If you're correct, is it true that I won't see the loose pieces of lining through the access panel opening -- and I won't be able to see that until I get in there and remove the clutch system to see behind it? (Is it more obvious I've never done this?)

 

[Alan Martinson]

The throwout braring may be failin/failed aqnd wearing out the fingers radically. if the tractor was able to pull a load just before this happened, the throwout is a suspect. If there is "extra noise when the clutch is pushed in that is another indicator. The clutch system can be changed without a split of the tractor on that model. Let us know and we can give you the sequence to do that repair. Jim

Janicholson. Could you provide that sequence to change the clutch system without splitting the tractor? I may not be ready to do that now - but soon. Thanks

 

[Jim Becker]

Jim Becker and used red MN. Thanks for making that point. If you're correct, is it true that I won't see the loose pieces of lining through the access panel opening -- and I won't be able to see that until I get in there and remove the clutch system to see behind it? (Is it more obvious I've never done this?)

Maybe, maybe not. If several chunks of the facing broke loose, there is likely to be quite a few small bits scattered through the whole area of the clutch. On the other hand, a single loose piece could have caused it. It could have slipped out of the place that caused the interference and now be lodged somewhere like in the pressure plate where it is not causing a problem. It could move again at any time, possibly to repeat the earlier problem or to get flung out into the open space of the housing.

 

[Janicholson]

The driven disc with friction material on it is more or less captured in this flywheel design. the wheel has a cup shape that is about an inch and a half deep, in which the driven disc and face of the pressure plate are located. It more or less prevents loose material from getting out to see it.
Parts diagram
The repair process (if eventually needed.Take pictures all along the way!!!!):
Remove the inspection plate.
remove the hydraulic "elbow" fittings, the control lever, and the fill cap.
Using a floor jack, or long threaded rods and nuts to hold the weight, Lower the Liftall pump and reservoir and move it away. It is very heavy and awkward.
Remove the clutch pilot tube 2 bolts from the housing (part ref 32).
Take images of the transmission coupling joint. it can be assembled wrong and cause drastic problems if wrong.
Remove the taper headed bolts (Often difficult to get loose even with the nuts removed because of the taper).
loosen the clutch pressure plate bolts until they are only 5 turns from coming out. This allows the clutch shaft to be wiggled rearward enough to come out (hold your tongue just right while clamping it with your teeth)
Remove the loosened bolts, top one last, while holding the weight of the pressure plate. Heavyish it is.
The driven disc is now free to remove.
Clean all parts before putting it back together with new components as needed. check the splines on the clutch shaft to make sure they are free of wear where the driven disc splines touched it. wear here can cause a new disc to drag on the flywheel.
Assembly is the reverse od the above. do not use grease or oil on the splines. PTFE spray like TriFlow is ok there.
Do lubricate the new throwout bearing and flywheel pilot bearing!
Ask questions as needed here! get a blueribbon service manual for it as well!..
Jim

 

[Jim Becker]

This tractor may have the style pressure plate where you remove every other retaining bolt and screw them back into the open holes in the pressure plate to compress the springs. If so, that should be done before or rather than doing the step "loosen the clutch pressure plate bolts until they are only 5 turns from coming out. ".

 

[Alan Martinson]

The driven disc with friction material on it is more or less captured in this flywheel design. the wheel has a cup shape that is about an inch and a half deep, in which the driven disc and face of the pressure plate are located. It more or less prevents loose material from getting out to see it.
Parts diagram
The repair process (if eventually needed.Take pictures all along the way!!!!):
Remove the inspection plate.
remove the hydraulic "elbow" fittings, the control lever, and the fill cap.
Using a floor jack, or long threaded rods and nuts to hold the weight, Lower the Liftall pump and reservoir and move it away. It is very heavy and awkward.
Remove the clutch pilot tube 2 bolts from the housing (part ref 32).
Take images of the transmission coupling joint. it can be assembled wrong and cause drastic problems if wrong.
Remove the taper headed bolts (Often difficult to get loose even with the nuts removed because of the taper).
loosen the clutch pressure plate bolts until they are only 5 turns from coming out. This allows the clutch shaft to be wiggled rearward enough to come out (hold your tongue just right while clamping it with your teeth)
Remove the loosened bolts, top one last, while holding the weight of the pressure plate. Heavyish it is.
The driven disc is now free to remove.
Clean all parts before putting it back together with new components as needed. check the splines on the clutch shaft to make sure they are free of wear where the driven disc splines touched it. wear here can cause a new disc to drag on the flywheel.
Assembly is the reverse od the above. do not use grease or oil on the splines. PTFE spray like TriFlow is ok there.
Do lubricate the new throwout bearing and flywheel pilot bearing!
Ask questions as needed here! get a blueribbon service manual for it as well!..
Jim

Thank you for the detailed description and the part's diagram, Jim. I recognize the name, Janicholson, and I know you've helped me in years past with Farmall H projects. I found the Blue-Ribbon Service Training Course manual deep in my tractor files. I guess I've referred to it a lot! I have a feeling I'll be using this clutch information soon.

 

[Alan Martinson]

This tractor may have the style pressure plate where you remove every other retaining bolt and screw them back into the open holes in the pressure plate to compress the springs. If so, that should be done before or rather than doing the step "loosen the clutch pressure plate bolts until they are only 5 turns from coming out. ".

Thank you, Jim Becker. I noticed in the parts diagram Janicholson gave me, there is different clutch assembly depending on your tractor serial number. I have FBH 204601. I should be able to tell what style pressure plate I have before I get into this.

 

[used red MN]

My question is did you do the “greasing” per the operators manual? In other words did you set the engine rotation position per the mark on the front pulley to align the pilot bearing grease zerk on the flywheel with the access hole? If you did and over greased that this could explain your temporary grinding due to grease on the clutch surfaces. If you didn’t then that leaves the possibility of my first explanation that could come back at any point.
I believe the different clutches you are referring to are the Auburn and Rockford. The serial number will be followed by a “J” to signify the Rockford clutch was installed. The Rockford clutch is often said to be more “heavy duty” type. However, there is no known deficiencies concerning the Auburn type, it applies with equal holding pressure to the lining. All the current replacement clutches are the Rockford style and are a direct bolt in replacement for the Auburn. Here is a link to a discussion and explanation of the two types in a regards to a Farmall C in a Red Power forum thread.
Red Power Auburn vs Rockford clutch

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Janicholson. Could you provide that sequence to change the clutch system without splitting the tractor? I may not be ready to do that now - but soon. Thanks

Honestly it's not difficult. If you have any mechanical acumen at all you will see that X is in the way of Y is in the way of Z, then once you've got the pressure plate off the flywheel, reverse the process.

You really don't "look for" anything. If you're going to go to the trouble to pull it all apart to look, you replace the parts with new so you don't have to do it again.

 

[Alan Martinson]

My question is did you do the “greasing” per the operators manual? In other words did you set the engine rotation position per the mark on the front pulley to align the pilot bearing grease zerk on the flywheel with the access hole? If you did and over greased that this could explain your temporary grinding due to grease on the clutch surfaces. If you didn’t then that leaves the possibility of my first explanation that could come back at any point.
I believe the different clutches you are referring to are the Auburn and Rockford. The serial number will be followed by a “J” to signify the Rockford clutch was installed. The Rockford clutch is often said to be more “heavy duty” type. However, there is no known deficiencies concerning the Auburn type, it applies with equal holding pressure to the lining. All the current replacement clutches are the Rockford style and are a direct bolt in replacement for the Auburn. Here is a link to a discussion and explanation of the two types in a regards to a Farmall C in a Red Power forum thread.
Red Power Auburn vs Rockford clutch

Yes, used red MN. I lined up that grease zerk on the flywheel with the access hole and then greased it. Frankly, I hadn't done that for a while, so I feel like I may have pumped more than normal in. The timing is interesting, because I greased it, immediately used the tractor for an hour or two, and then the grinding problem occurred. Thanks for that explanation of how the grease could have caused a problem and the information on the clutch types. I'll check out that link.

 

[used red MN]

I don’t know what the manual says but a 1/2 stroke is all you need in there once a year. Probably every two years considering most of these tractors are only played with on occasion and not doing year round farm tasks.