Ford 3000 Clutch Not Disengaging - Split, Not Sure What's Wrong

[ourlittle.farm]

All,

I had a situation with my 3000 where the unit would not disengage the clutch, by that I could turn it over, runs fine, but when I press the clutch pedal down, I cannot put it into gear as it is still spinning full boar. Sudden onset, I parked it a month or so ago, ran without any noticeable problem, but wound't do spit when I turned it over last week.

I tried adjusting linkages (which were adjusted as far in as they will go), some hand work, no noticeable improvement. Link is good. Tried starting it in gear to see if maybe it was stuck/seized, no dice there.

So i but the bullet and split the tractor, (which was extra fun with the Kelley 800 loader removal), expecting a shot fork, or bearing. Upon opening, I see nothing obviously non-functional/broken. Pictures below.

A few things I did notice

• Clutch Release Bearing Hub appears to have been machined down a lot and potentially the wrong part?
• Clutch Release Bearing appears to be the wrong bearing (a Green CB-1087, appears to be for a Triumph TR2, TR3)
• Clutch plate is a little thin
• Clutch assembly is made in England, presumably quite old.
• Clutch fingers do not appear to have been adjusted correctly?

None of things point to it spontaneously no longer working.

Any thoughts with what is going on here?

Posted serials of engine and transmission in case that helps at all.

Transmission Serial: C140523 F36
31022A

Engine: NG 044121F 45
C5NE 6015A

Year: 1966

 

[ourlittle.farm]

Here are the rest of them...

 

[used red MN]

Should have been in contact with the forum so all the possibilities could be explored before you tore it down.
To diagnose it I would put the throw out bearing back in position and measure it distance of travel from the clutch up to clutch down. Then remove the flywheel bolt the clutch pressure plate back on the flywheel with the lined clutch centered as it would be assembled in the tractor. Then place the unit in a press and push the TO bearing down the distance measured during the pedal movement. Then see if it releases the clutch plate. A small jack bottle jack under something heavy like a vehicle can take the place of a press.

but wound't do spit when I turned it over last week.

What does this mean? Can you explain that in more detail?
What caused all these dents and scratches on the pressure plate in this photo? Depending on when this happened this could be your problem.

Unless this is surface residue, which it doesn’t look like to me. The areas circled on the flywheel are where it appears to have been setting some amount of time allowing rusting of the flywheel surface while the lined plate sat pressed against it. The lined plate could have very well been stuck there at some point.

 

[Janicholson]

Welcome to YT forums and PartsASAP.
In the second paragraph you state "...stuck or seized, No dice there"
The clutch either worked at that point, such that with the pedal pushed down, the tractor did not move, or the tractor moved pedal down or up. My suggestion is to replace those components, they are worn and or not as original/correct replacement. The pedal needs to have about an inch (guess) of free play to work correctly pulling the TO bearing off of the fingers when your foot is off the clutch. This site sells components and kits for it. They are reasonable and good quality. Jim

 

[Hobo,NC]

Should have been in contact with the forum so all the possibilities could be explored before you tore it down.
To diagnose it I would put the throw out bearing back in position and measure it distance of travel from the clutch up to clutch down. Then remove the flywheel bolt the clutch pressure plate back on the flywheel with the lined clutch centered as it would be assembled in the tractor. Then place the unit in a press and push the TO bearing down the distance measured during the pedal movement. Then see if it releases the clutch plate. A small jack bottle jack under something heavy like a vehicle can take the place of a press.

What does this mean? Can you explain that in more detail?
What caused all these dents and scratches on the pressure plate in this photo? Depending on when this happened this could be your problem.

View attachment 105156Unless this is surface residue, which it doesn’t look like to me. The areas circled on the flywheel are where it appears to have been setting some amount of time allowing rusting of the flywheel surface while the lined plate sat pressed against it. The lined plate could have very well been stuck there at some point.
View attachment 105157

Assembling the clutch to the flywheel and using a press it a good way to test a old set and a new set. At the release bearing installed in the tractor no more than 3/8" of travel once it touches the fingers is the norm for all I have tested so no more than 3/8" of travel while its in the press. Clutch linkage users mechanical advantage its easy to get caught up in 1" talk about clutch pedal free play. I always check it at the linkage to clutch arm leaver on the outside of the tractor. 1/16 to 1/8" of free play there and you will be cooking with gas.

 

[VAFords]

Did you check the pilot bearing to be sure it turns free and smooth?

 

[shaun wallace]

In pic with cover that lug sticking thru cover is why pedal is hard to push down running. Its binding because of wear and the other lugs where stick thru cover. Seen on 8N that clutch worked just fine with engine dead but when running pedal was hard to push down. Replaced cover and worked fine.

 

[used red MN]

In pic with cover that lug sticking thru cover

Is what you are calling the "lug" the rusty part showing through the rectangle in my top picture?(please answer Y/N) The piece that has the connection for the fingers to connect on to pull the plate away from the lined plate to release it? Looking up this terminology now, that is part of what is actually called the "cast pressure plate." It looks like I have always used the term "pressure plate" incorrectly for what is actually the clutch cover.

 

[shaun wallace]

Yes, that what I am calling a lug is what I am meaning.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

"Sudden onset" or "spontaneously" is almost always the clutch disk stuck to the flywheel. It's not always obvious when you take it apart.

If you were adjusted all the way to the maximum, it was time for a new clutch. So this wasn't wasted time or effort.

 

[ourlittle.farm]

Should have been in contact with the forum so all the possibilities could be explored before you tore it down.
To diagnose it I would put the throw out bearing back in position and measure it distance of travel from the clutch up to clutch down. Then remove the flywheel bolt the clutch pressure plate back on the flywheel with the lined clutch centered as it would be assembled in the tractor. Then place the unit in a press and push the TO bearing down the distance measured during the pedal movement. Then see if it releases the clutch plate. A small jack bottle jack under something heavy like a vehicle can take the place of a press.

What does this mean? Can you explain that in more detail?
What caused all these dents and scratches on the pressure plate in this photo? Depending on when this happened this could be your problem.

View attachment 105156Unless this is surface residue, which it doesn’t look like to me. The areas circled on the flywheel are where it appears to have been setting some amount of time allowing rusting of the flywheel surface while the lined plate sat pressed against it. The lined plate could have very well been stuck there at some point.
View attachment 105157

I think your assessment is right here. I think it was probably siezed and, even me running the starter with it in gear just wasnt enough to free it.

Oh well. While it is open I am basically refurbishing everything inside so hopefully it is a gooood long while before I have to open it again!

Thanks for your input everyone!

 

[used red MN]

I think your assessment is right here. I think it was probably siezed and, even me running the starter with it in gear just wasnt enough to free it.

Oh well. While it is open I am basically refurbishing everything inside so hopefully it is a gooood long while before I have to open it again!

Thanks for your input everyone!

Any ideas on what made the dents and scratches in the cover. Was this from the splined transmission shaft during uncontrolled movement between the two parts of the tractor as you pulled them away from each other. Are you doing this with some type of hard surface under at least one half of the tractor so it can roll fairly easily? If you are wrestling this around on a less that ideal surface when you go back together if you bang that shaft around on things when bringing it back together the damage may cause the the replacement parts to fail to work properly.

 

[wore out]

I think most of your problem is that the clutch disc facings have deteriorated which has been aggravated by them being stuck to the flywheel and likely the pressure plate, and bits pieces have torn loose.

When debris gets between the linings and the pressure plate and flywheel it takes up what should be open space when the pedal is depressed, causing the clutch to drag/not release.

Also, the facings MAY have swelled and/or be somewhat torn loose on the rivets, and have debris between the other side and the steel clutch "spider", as well.

I see nothing wrong with what we can see of the T.O. bearing or WHAT you are trying to show that is not right or "excessively machined down" with your digital caliper measurements. I didn't see a side-by-side comparison of the O.D. of the "snout" it rides on vs. the I.D. of the bearing, tho, but some of your photos don't load at this end.

Dunno if it's the correct T.O. bearing or NOT, but nothing "stands out" that it isn't.

As far as "make" and "numbers" on the bearing, they are a pretty generic part (likely NOT specifically made for that use) and it wouldn't be unusual that the same T.O. bearing would fit numerous applications, or that a bearing of another make and part number might not be an exact interchange.

Sometimes, T.O. bearings that are direct "subs" for each other vary in appearance, and even in the shape and detailed size of the "crimped area".

 

[Mike(NEOhio)]

I can't speak for the throwout bearing but I had to split my 2000 to replace the ring gear. I found it was the same clutch used in my old Scout, Dana, which would stick once in a while. It wasn't rusted like yours but there was some slight grooving on the lugs where they contacted the cover. It would stick if I hit the clutch with some power applied. If I let off the gas before pushing the clutch it was fine. I would say take the pressure plate apart and clean them up but you'd need to reset the finger height.

 

[ourlittle.farm]

Any ideas on what made the dents and scratches in the cover. Was this from the splined transmission shaft during uncontrolled movement between the two parts of the tractor as you pulled them away from each other. Are you doing this with some type of hard surface under at least one half of the tractor so it can roll fairly easily? If you are wrestling this around on a less that ideal surface when you go back together if you bang that shaft around on things when bringing it back together the damage may cause the the replacement parts to fail to work properly.

Nope, no idea. Inherited problem unfortunately. I am an IT guy by trade, so I am not accustomed to letting things bang into each other. Any damage on that thing would have been well before I got it.

That is why I am refinishing the whole interior, no idea what kind of nonsense this thing went through, but I am just gonna do all of it so I dont have to worry about it.

On a similar note, it seems that starter motor plate etc was setup for a diesel (larger bolt hole pattern), but its got a gas engine, so this may have been two different tractors at one point.

 

[Destroked 450]

Nope, no idea. Inherited problem unfortunately. I am an IT guy by trade, so I am not accustomed to letting things bang into each other. Any damage on that thing would have been well before I got it.

That is why I am refinishing the whole interior, no idea what kind of nonsense this thing went through, but I am just gonna do all of it so I dont have to worry about it.

On a similar note, it seems that starter motor plate etc was setup for a diesel (larger bolt hole pattern), but its got a gas engine, so this may have been two different tractors at one point.

The starter bolt pattern for gas and diesels are the same but use different starters and flywheel ring gears
If your starter bolt pattern isn’t the same as the tractors you have the wrong starter