Ford 641 Carburetor ID, Harder Than It Should Be

[will-max dairy]

Well,

I finally did a rough cleaning to look for markings. It has "Marvel Schebler" stamped on each side of the intake manifold flange.

The throttle throat diameter at the intake manifold is 1.06"
The intake manifold mounting bolts are 2.2" to 2.3" apart center to center. (I measured with a dial caliber, but, eyeballing the center of the flange bolts at 54 years old? Dicey)
The float bowl bolts are 3-1/16" center to center on the long axis... which according to "The Carburetor Doctor" is the "small" float bowl for the TSX carburetors.

TSX Carb Numbers

Marvel-Schebler TSX carburetor number index

carbkitsource.com

Funny thing is, if I follow the application guide at The Carburetor Doctor... the TSX765 isn't listed for the small bowl kit...only the TSX580.

There are no other markings. I think it's a Marvel-Schebler TSX... but... various websites would call this either a TSX580 or TSX765.

This (Yesterday's Tractors) website's part page talks about "the one with the 3/8" banjo..."

Some websites throw a TSX428 into the mix... I think (think being the operative term) that the TSX428 is the one that takes fuel into the side. The carburetor that I'm working with...is a Marvel-Schebler, off of a Ford 641, and it has the sediment bowl mounted to the front with a banjo fitting...

What that equates to model-wise... is a mystery to me.

 

[old]

Well,

I finally did a rough cleaning to look for markings. It has "Marvel Schebler" stamped on each side of the intake manifold flange.

The throttle throat diameter at the intake manifold is 1.06"
The intake manifold mounting bolts are 2.2" to 2.3" apart center to center. (I measured with a dial caliber, but, eyeballing the center of the flange bolts at 54 years old? Dicey)
The float bowl bolts are 3-1/16" center to center on the long axis... which according to "The Carburetor Doctor" is the "small" float bowl for the TSX carburetors.

TSX Carb Numbers

Marvel-Schebler TSX carburetor number index

carbkitsource.com

Funny thing is, if I follow the application guide at The Carburetor Doctor... the TSX765 isn't listed for the small bowl kit...only the TSX580.

There are no other markings. I think it's a Marvel-Schebler TSX... but... various websites would call this either a TSX580 or TSX765.

This (Yesterday's Tractors) website's part page talks about "the one with the 3/8" banjo..."

Some websites throw a TSX428 into the mix... I think (think being the operative term) that the TSX428 is the one that takes fuel into the side. The carburetor that I'm working with...is a Marvel-Schebler, off of a Ford 641, and it has the sediment bowl mounted to the front with a banjo fitting...

What that equates to model-wise... is a mystery to me.

View attachment 90276

The brass tag should have TSX and then some numbers and that is what tells you which carb it is

 

[Andy Wickiser]

You missed the most important markings - those on the circular brass tag. The 57 means 1957, the 5 means 5th month of 1957 which is May. I see the start of the MS part number TSX but the number part is unreadable. I also see the start of the Ford part number EAE but the rest is also unreadable. EAE would indicate it belongs to a 134 engine, not 172. In 1957 the matching Ford carb was EAE-9510-D, and the MS number was TSX-580. Look at that area with a magnifying glass and you should be able to confirm.

 

[will-max dairy]

You missed the most important markings - those on the circular brass tag. The 57 means 1957, the 5 means 5th month of 1957 which is May. I see the start of the MS part number TSX but the number part is unreadable. I also see the start of the Ford part number EAE but the rest is also unreadable. EAE would indicate it belongs to a 134 engine, not 172. In 1957 the matching Ford carb was EAE-9510-D, and the MS number was TSX-580. Look at that area with a magnifying glass and you should be able to confirm.

OK... I didn't recognize that spot (circled) as a "brass tag"... I was looking for a literal tag, hanging from one of the bowl mounting screws on the back side...but now, I smell what you're stepping in.

I'm going to see if I can get a look at that in more detail.

This tractor has a cracked exhaust manifold just above this carb, so it was filthy. I know diesel isn't the best cleaner, but it's not so volatile as acetone or gasoline... I may have to break down and use a little brake cleaner.

When looking at carb applications for the Ford 641, I think that I did read about a couple of years of production that used a carburetor off of the earlier 134 engine... maybe that has added to my confusion.

Hoping that the numbers are still in that brass... it's awfully soft, I fear they may have been smudged out.

 

[will-max dairy]

The brass tag should have TSX and then some numbers and that is what tells you which carb it is

My "brass tag" was in an unfamiliar location... but I think I have it located now.

 

[will-max dairy]

A little more cleaning, and 10x zoom on my wife's phone camera. The TSX-580 is weak, but clear enough to verify. The Ford part number has a couple of dings in it.

Thankfully, the TXS-580 is all I need

 

[old]

A little more cleaning, and 10x zoom on my wife's phone camera. The TSX-580 is weak, but clear enough to verify. The Ford part number has a couple of dings in it.

Thankfully, the TXS-580 is all I need

If you have a local O'Reilly's and you are wanting a rebuilt kit they carry the Walker brand and the cost is around $25

 

[will-max dairy]

I bought an aftermarket TSX-580 from Amazon. A little over 55 bucks with tax. About the same cost as a good carburetor kit with a float.

It installed just fine on the tractor, and ran/idled very well with a couple of tweaks of the two needle valves.

The only oddball issue that I had is: It seems as though someone my have put a different sediment bowl on the old carburetor. I bought a screen and gasket for a "Ford 641" sediment bowl. When I compared the new gasket and screen, they were smaller diameter than what was installed on my old carburetor.

This seemed to be confirmed, when I tried to connect the old sediment bowl assembly to the new carburetor. The top of the sediment bowl bumped into the bowl of the carburetor before the banjo fitting could be completely tightened. (The new carburetor is the right size and style, the sediment bowl was only a couple of thousandths from touching the bowl on the old carburetor.)

As much as Tractor Supply is maligned, I stopped by there, and they carried a taller, smaller diameter sediment bowl; assembly; which would fit the new gasket and screen that I had. It was about 25 bucks. The banjo fitting parts from the old sediment bowl fit just fine.

The tractor is running, and installing a new keyswitch solved my friend's problem with not being able to turn it off a few years ago (without disconnecting battery negative). That seems to be an odd failure mode. I've replaced keyswitch assemblies on our old Ford 2N, three times in the ten years that I've had it... and when we previously owned this old 641 that I'm working on (we actually sold this 641 to our friend)... I replaced the keyswitch on that once or twice in five years... each time it failed open. This one seems to have failed short.

Anyway...

I'm now two for two with Amazon complete knockoff assemblies... this TSX-580 carburetor on this Ford 641; and the last time I needed to tune up our Ford 2N... I found a complete front distributor assembly on Amazon for 40 bucks.

In both cases, the complete assembly is on par with... or less cost than... the high end rebuild kits. In this case, I'm comparing the new carburetor to a complete rebuild kit and a float. I've seen kits without floats for 20 bucks. Floats for 20 bucks. I've seen high end kits for as much as 80 bucks.

Also in both cases, a couple of tweaks needed to be made... needle valve settings on the carb, and point gap on the distributor.

 

[Ozlander]

Brought an 860 about ten years ago. Previously owner tried to adjust the carb with a drill bit.
Brought a carb from amazon, around 70 bucks. couple of tweaks and it's been the best starting and running tractor anybody could want.

 

[will-max dairy]

Sure, and I respect anybody that wants to rebuild their own.

I just know myself, and I know that I've rebuilt a total of one carburetor in my 55 years on Earth. And that one took two tries. I also know that, to do it right, I would need to get a carburetor cleaner kit, and then figure out how to dispose of the soiled cleaning fluid. I don't have a waste oil burner, or anything like that. Plus, I've read that the new floats that are being offered for sale sometimes leak...and I have no written guarantee from any of the kit sellers, or rebuilt carburetor sellers, that they are using anything other than parts that come from China themselves.

As an aside, I just looked up the 96oz Gunk Carburetor cleaning kit on the Autozone Website. 52bucks. And, the reviews seem to have a trend. Anything older than 4 years old is (paraphrased)... 'works great! dipped parts overnight and came out like new!'
Starting about 3 years ago they change to (paraphrased)... 'soaked for a week and did nothing' or 'I liked the old stuff better' or 'works about as good as dish soap'...

I'm not sure if there was a formulation change. I would be curious if any of the people that more routinely clean/rebuild carbs have noticed a change in these carb cleaner kits? The last time I used one was seven or eight years ago, and I remember a really volatile, astringent-smelling stuff that cleaned carburetor parts... and your sinuses...


I almost wonder if it would be better to just take a disassembled carburetor to a garage and offer to pay them 60 bucks to clean it for you...

Given the comparisons of cost and quality, and what information is available... the only reason for me to rebuild a carburetor would be to hone my skills at rebuilding carburetors...which is a skill that isn't much needed on our farm. I'm also not already setup with a parts cleaner, and I don't see one in my future.

Maybe I've lucked out buying complete assemblies from Amazon... but it's often better to be lucky than good, lol.