Ford 841 diesel started on its own after shut off

Snattlerake

Member
Location
OKC
My brother-in-law has my deceased father's 1959 Ford 841 diesel. He was trying to sell it but couldn't get it started again after sitting for 6 months.
He said, six months ago he was working the tractor and shut it off to get a drink. When he came back, it had started itself and was sitting in place, running at idle.
Since it is a diesel and has a mechanical fuel pump and will not shut off with the key like a gas engine, he has to use the accelerator lever on the right side of the steering wheel to shut off the fuel to kill the tractor.

This unnerved him and since he had completed the work with the tractor, he stored it in the shed, shutting off the fuel by the aforementioned method and disconnected the battery.

He decided to sell it. He called me and I put it online in a local forum I am a part of and had three buyers. One absolutely wanted a running tractor and had first dibs. Since he had stipulations, we considered his offer second place to someone who would step up and take the beast running or not.
BIL and I tried to start it but the battery was dead Fred. He bought new one and replaced it. When we attempted to attach the positive cable to the solenoid, the solenoid clicked and the sparks flew on the terminal causing wisps of smoke. I quickly removed it. Thinking a shorted solenoid was the culprit for the self starting tractor, I used jumper cables to the starter terminal. The starter was stuck tight and wasn't even trying. After about an hour of love taps and reapplying the power in quick milisecond snaps, it finally chugged a bit. Oh happy day! Also after an hour, the battery was down so I jumped the battery with my truck. It still chugged a bit then the terminal got hot. I waited about 20 minutes for the charging to complete and tried the starter again. The starter chugged and chugged but it didn't start. After two more tries, I climbed up and checked the fuel tank. Lessee, compression, heat, air and fuel for a diesel right? Dang it brother, that tank wasn't even wet at the bottom. I wanted to pull the tractor to pull start it but I was by myself and my other buddy backed out having unexpected company.

So now the plan is when he gets home from a trip this weekend, he's gonna get some diesel pushmawater and add it to the tank. Then I got the call. A feller wants the tractor, running or not and wants to be present when we try to start it again. Hey, he's bringing cash and a trailer, who am I to argue?

He's agreeing with me on my diagnosis and bringing a solenoid with him.

One other question, is there a priming pump lever or something to prime the fuel pump? I remember my 930 Long Nose had one. (never ran out of fuel again either) It has the tarp on it and that front end loader so I couldn't see much of anything on the engine.

Just for grins, do you think we diagnosed it correctly?
 
If it were me, I would remove the starter and try to bar the engine over. If it spins freely, I would likely purchase a starter and a solenoid.
 
Just for grins, do you think we diagnosed it correctly?
Sorry to sound harsh, but... Honestly, no. I don't think you diagnosed anything. You just kept trying the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. Cranked the starter into oblivion until you finally decided to check the fuel.

The solution to a "no start" situation is NOT to keep grinding on the starter. If there is no signs of life in 10 seconds for a gas, or 30 seconds for a diesel, you need to STOP and troubleshoot. Cranking the engine for hours on end, hoping it will start, is not a troubleshooting step. Sorry. I really am. This is tough love. I'm not trying to discourage you. This is a teachable moment.

If the solenoid clicked, it is probably fine. Something is applying power to the solenoid causing it to engage. A stuck solenoid would not click because it's stuck.

The first step is to remove the small wire from the S terminal on the solenoid. That would be how the solenoid is getting power to click. If you can hook the battery up normally, the problem is either with the wiring or the starter switch.
 
Sorry to sound harsh, but... Honestly, no. I don't think you diagnosed anything. You just kept trying the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. Cranked the starter into oblivion until you finally decided to check the fuel.

The solution to a "no start" situation is NOT to keep grinding on the starter. If there is no signs of life in 10 seconds for a gas, or 30 seconds for a diesel, you need to STOP and troubleshoot. Cranking the engine for hours on end, hoping it will start, is not a troubleshooting step. Sorry. I really am. This is tough love. I'm not trying to discourage you. This is a teachable moment.

If the solenoid clicked, it is probably fine. Something is applying power to the solenoid causing it to engage. A stuck solenoid would not click because it's stuck.

The first step is to remove the small wire from the S terminal on the solenoid. That would be how the solenoid is getting power to click. If you can hook the battery up normally, the problem is either with the wiring or the starter switch.
I guess I didn't explain the starter part.
When I found the starter was locked up, I grabbed a hammer and gently tapped it and the cast housing while momentarily connecting the battery to the starter via jumper cables. As a young kid, I whacked starters into oblivion even cracking the casting on one block that was holding the starter. I have learned much since then.

The momentarily touching of the battery cable was just that, momentary, like testing a cable for a spark. During intervals of brainstorming, I let it rest and gently tapped it about 10 times then bumped the cable again while tapping it. Letting it rest, then again tap the starter and bump the cable. I'm guessing I did this about 20 times spaced out over an hour's time doing other things between bumps. I did not crank it continuously until it really broke free and cranked easily. Then when I cranked it it was only three times and for only around 10 seconds each time. THAT was when I had the AHA moment about fuel.

The reason I didn't check for fuel at the beginning is because my brother-in-law was helping me trying to start it at first and said he drove it into the shed and with his lever, starved the engine of fuel to kill it, and it's been parked about six months. This tells me I should have at least a cupful of fuel, right? It also had a tarp over the hood to keep out the rain so yeah, I never checked for fuel.

Never assume!
 
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Update, the tractor is much gone and the wallet is much full.

We tried to pull start in third gear. Nope
We again tried the starter and it would run on ether with just a slow fog not a full spray into the air cleaner but would not respond to the throttle lever.

I even bled all the fuel lines I could get to on the block and the pump and never had bad fuel or saw any bubbles.
 
Hello Snattlerake, welcome to YT! Thanks for providing the outcome information! Well hopefully it turned out nearly as best as could be expected for you. Surely could have asked more for a running tractor! When you bled the injector lines did it produce notable pulses of fuel? Curious what you expect “bad fuel” to look like?
 
Bad fuel to me is water or dirt in the fuel. It was pure filtered diesel that was coming out and was not in spurts before the fuel pump. I loosened the two bolts on the side of the pump, One was a 7/16 and the other was a 1/2. Both leaked fuel, not in spurts. The injector lines to the block were loosened but I was by myself at that time and couldn't crank and look at the same time. They came back from looking at the implements and I had it all buttoned back up. That's when they decided to pull start.

The new owner is a really nice fella and promised to send pictures and narratives on his progress.

When he does, do youse guys want to be in the know also?
 

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