I am repairing a MF 35 PTO.

[Tim Co]

I am repairing a MF 35 PTO. The hydraulic lift cover broke when something snapped inside while mowing. It broke over the small cover plate closest to the shifter. I am trying to order a new Hydraulic lift cover. The number on the cover is 184 384 M2. I think that is the heavy duty version, but would a 190861m1 fit on the case? After I open it up I will see what hit the top plate to break it.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

I am repairing a MF 35 PTO. The hydraulic lift cover broke when something snapped inside while mowing. It broke over the small cover plate closest to the shifter. I am trying to order a new Hydraulic lift cover. The number on the cover is 184 384 M2. I think that is the heavy duty version, but would a 190861m1 fit on the case? After I open it up I will see what hit the top plate to break it.

You will probably want to look inside to see what else you need before buying that cover it might mean the difference between needing a top cover and a rear end.

 

[Tim Co]

I will be taking it apart this week . I will update when I find out what happened in there. I was wondering if anyone had this happen and what it ended up being for them. I think there is a pump fastened to the underside of the lift cover? I have heard a pressure relief valve could also stick and break the cover....... thanks for the help.

 

[Tim Co]

I took the lift cover off. No visible internal damage except the broken hydraulic lift cover. It also broke the back two bolts off the lift piston cylinder housing too and lifted the front section of the cover. Has anyone seen this damage before without damage inside the case? I'm thinking it has something to do with the lift piston and the piston arm? When the damage happened while I was mowing with a 5' rotary mower, hitting a tree in the field, I went to back out of the tree with the PTO off but, I had the PTO in the ground speed option thinking it was disengaged. As soon as I engaged the clutch in reverse, it popped and broke the case. Would this indicate a pressure spike?
Could it be the pressure relief valve on the pump?

Are there adjustments to the lift linkage that could have done this?

I can't see the pump filter, I was going to replace that too but I am not seeing it where I thought it would be on the top side if the pump.

The pump still pumps oil out the tube stand hole as it should.

I hate to get a new lift cover and reinstall it all without knowing what happened and have it happen again?

Should I get a M2, the heavy duty lift cover like I have or since they are harder to find, will a M1-light duty cover match my case?

Any help is appreciated. Thank you

 

[Hobo,NC]

I took the lift cover off. No visible internal damage except the broken hydraulic lift cover. It also broke the back two bolts off the lift piston cylinder housing too and lifted the front section of the cover. Has anyone seen this damage before without damage inside the case? I'm thinking it has something to do with the lift piston and the piston arm? When the damage happened while I was mowing with a 5' rotary mower, hitting a tree in the field, I went to back out of the tree with the PTO off but, I had the PTO in the ground speed option thinking it was disengaged. As soon as I engaged the clutch in reverse, it popped and broke the case. Would this indicate a pressure spike?
Could it be the pressure relief valve on the pump?

Are there adjustments to the lift linkage that could have done this?

I can't see the pump filter, I was going to replace that too but I am not seeing it where I thought it would be on the top side if the pump.

The pump still pumps oil out the tube stand hole as it should.

I hate to get a new lift cover and reinstall it all without knowing what happened and have it happen again?

Should I get a M2, the heavy duty lift cover like I have or since they are harder to find, will a M1-light duty cover match my case?

Any help is appreciated. Thank you

I put a pump in one last summer the original pump did not have a filter but the replacement pump did. On the new pump you would remove the PTO leaver to get at the filter, its not hidden. I was impressed at how easy the pump was to get out and back in. I took the old pump apart (it would not lift) it was worn but I never did see why it would not work. The hardest part was getting the PTO shaft out then back in. A new pump was less than $300 and worth the gamble.

 

[Harry in Ky]

Make sure you replace the relief valve on the lift pump. Should that be stuck shut and non operational you could easily have a repeat failure down the road unless the all the linkage adjustments are perfect. I wouldn't take that chance.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

the filter will look like a small pop can with 2 end covers if it has one and like hobo said have to access through the pto lever cover hole.

Nothing glaringly obvious no balls fell out of the pto bearing or anything else and feels tight? I believe the main difference wil be that there isn’t the load sense cylinder on the 3rd link anymore. That might eliminate some of the things you were worried about anyway and will certainly be cheaper if in fact something else is wrong and you. I believe the bolt holes are the same but haven’t been in the situation to swap one.

 

[Tim Co]

I put a pump in one last summer the original pump did not have a filter but the replacement pump did. On the new pump you would remove the PTO leaver to get at the filter, its not hidden. I was impressed at how easy the pump was to get out and back in. I took the old pump apart (it would not lift) it was worn but I never did see why it would not work. The hardest part was getting the PTO shaft out then back in. A new pump was less than $300 and worth the gamble.

Thank you for the response. I think my pump doesn't have a filter either. I will definitely consider a new pump with a filter as I reassemble.

 

[Tim Co]

Make sure you replace the relief valve on the lift pump. Should that be stuck shut and non operational you could easily have a repeat failure down the road unless the all the linkage adjustments are perfect. I wouldn't take that chance.

Thank you, I will replace the releif valve for sure. I hear there is an upgraded valve that is designed for the new diff/trans oils of today that are lighter. The original oil for Ferguson was a mineral type oil, but I think my issue came from a stuck valve or an out of adjustment draft or position control that jammed when I hit the log. That is my guess, but I'm still perplexed.

 

[Tim Co]

the filter will look like a small pop can with 2 end covers if it has one and like hobo said have to access through the pto lever cover hole.

Nothing glaringly obvious no balls fell out of the pto bearing or anything else and feels tight? I believe the main difference wil be that there isn’t the load sense cylinder on the 3rd link anymore. That might eliminate some of the things you were worried about anyway and will certainly be cheaper if in fact something else is wrong and you. I believe the bolt holes are the same but haven’t been in the situation to swap one.

Yes, everything looks tight and in place other than the cover. My hunch is the jam shocked the pressure/list piston and the pressure valve didn't release and it pushed the ram bolt (piston arm) back into the cylinder housing crooked which pushed down on the cylinder housing, breaking the rear bolts and cracking the lift cover. Otherwise I can't see any other way the damage could have occurred.
I am concerned about putting it all back together and getting the adjustments correct so that it won't break again.

Currently everything on the old lift cover is frozen together and I can't get the lift arms off, or the cross shaft out. I have them soaking in oil but might have to use heat to get them off.

Aligning and timing the splines on the cross shaft to get it back together on a new lift cover is another concern.

I heard my 190861M2-the lift cover I am looking for, is 1 1/8" thick at the front bolt while the M1 version(light) is 7/8" thick at the front bolt.
So the light version should fit the bolt pattern on my trans case, but I want a heavy M2 version. Not sure about the cylinder bolts, but the center is much thicker.

Thank you for any advice.

 

[Tim Co]

1. Looking for information on replacing my hydraulic lift head cover.

Casting number is 184 384 M2-- I think the Ferguson part number is 190861M2 ?? Those are hard for me to find but I also saw that there might be a heavy duty version that takes the place of that part number. It is 3761903M91. Is that correct?
Where can I find a M2 heavy cover?

I am also trying to confirm my pump pressure. My MF35X tractor has a number plate of SGM 210011. The hydraulic pump does not have a filter.
I want to replace the pressure relief valve. I am thinking it would be a 2500 psi? Can someone confirm/cross-reference this based on my numbers?

Thank you,

Tim

 

[Tim Co]

I have a picture of my pressure relief valve. Can anyone tell if it is a 2500psi or 2000psi? How can I tell what I have?

 

[Tim Co]

Make sure you replace the relief valve on the lift pump. Should that be stuck shut and non operational you could easily have a repeat failure down the road unless the all the linkage adjustments are perfect. I wouldn't take that chance.

Thank you, I will replace the releif valve for sure. I hear there is an upgraded valve that is designed for the new diff/trans oils of today that are lighter. The original oil for Ferguson was a mineral type oil, but I think my issue came from a stuck valve or an out of adjustment draft or position control that jammed when I hit the log. That is my guess, but I'm still perplexed.

Harry, I have a picture of my pressure relief valve. How can I tell if it is a 2500psi or 2000psi? How can I tell what I have? MF35X Ferguson

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[Harry in Ky]

I doubt that it really matters. The only time it will come into play is when the lift arms are all the way up and the rockshaft arm is bottomed out against the case. At this point either one will do the job before something breaks.

 

[Tim Co]

Thanks Harry, do you know where I can find the adjustment specs for the position and draft control before I put the lift cover back on?

I purchased a used complete head unit complete with lift arms, piston, controls and quadrant. The question I have is I see the rockshaft lobe has a groove worn in it, it is about 1/8th deep. The position linkage roller was frozen and rubbed a groove in it. I have freed the roller but can you see a problem with the rockshaft in this condition?

 

[Hobo,NC]

Thanks Harry, do you know where I can find the adjustment specs for the position and draft control before I put the lift cover back on?

I purchased a used complete head unit complete with lift arms, piston, controls and quadrant. The question I have is I see the rockshaft lobe has a groove worn in it, it is about 1/8th deep. The position linkage roller was frozen and rubbed a groove in it. I have freed the roller but can you see a problem with the rockshaft in this condition?

If you can weld that's a easy fix. Have you looked on youtube Bundy Bears Shed

 

[Harry in Ky]

Somehow I doubt that groove will be a real problem. As for adjustment procedures and specs, those tractors all used basically the same designs but yet they are all different. Adjustment instructions always include the use of a number of "special tools" that may have been around fifty years ago but mechanics in most Massey shops I've tried don't have them, have no idea what they looked like, or what their dimensions were. Going "by the book" has never worked for me.

Usually what I do is work the draft and position control levers to see how the linkage acts. In a nutshell, It needs to operate the control valve roller by moving it back and forth to control the pump's oil flow into and out of the lift cylinder. as levers are moved and the rockshaft moves up and down. Sometimes the cover needs to be back in place to see if all that works as it should. I operate the levers, raise and lower the lift arms by hand, and observe this through the right side hole with cover off. If it looks right I put some oil in and try it out. It may require some additional tinkering to get the arms to full raise, hold, and lower, but most often works out well enough.

 

[Tim Co]

If you can weld that's a easy fix. Have you looked on youtube Bundy Bears Shed

Thanks Hobo, I was able to find the book on the MF35 from the web site. Thanks so much, it does describe the adjustments, so I will have to read a few times to understand it, but so good to have.
I might try to weld in a fill to the worn groove on the rockshaft cam, but if it doesn't matter I might not. I'm not sure yet how important a properly sized/raised cam is, but having the cam smooth and level might be important for roller lift linkage longevity.

Thanks again.

 

[Tim Co]

Somehow I doubt that groove will be a real problem. As for adjustment procedures and specs, those tractors all used basically the same designs but yet they are all different. Adjustment instructions always include the use of a number of "special tools" that may have been around fifty years ago but mechanics in most Massey shops I've tried don't have them, have no idea what they looked like, or what their dimensions were. Going "by the book" has never worked for me.

Usually what I do is work the draft and position control levers to see how the linkage acts. In a nutshell, It needs to operate the control valve roller by moving it back and forth to control the pump's oil flow into and out of the lift cylinder. as levers are moved and the rockshaft moves up and down. Sometimes the cover needs to be back in place to see if all that works as it should. I operate the levers, raise and lower the lift arms by hand, and observe this through the right side hole with cover off. If it looks right I put some oil in and try it out. It may require some additional tinkering to get the arms to full raise, hold, and lower, but most often works out well enough.

Thanks Harry, yes if the groove in the rockshaft cam doesn't matter, I won't mess with it. I am concerned about getting it smooth and level anyway for the roller....and I found the specs on the adjustments so I'll see if I can make heads or tails of it and I will do what you said and watch the linkage move and adjust it that way. My biggest concern is to not break the lift cover again by the rockshaft and piston pushing up on the cover trying to lift too far.
I remember when I got this tractor a year ago I would notice if I lifted the PTO arms up with the quadrant control, at the peak height it would bog the engine a bit, much like the pump was trying to lift beyond the range and hit a stop. I wonder if that could have been what eventually broke my cover when I was hung up on the tree and the pressure spike broke the case.
I don't know if that would be possible or not.
I am cleaning the PTO chamber out with diesel before I put the cover back on, lots of sludge in there.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

 

[Tim Co]

Somehow I doubt that groove will be a real problem. As for adjustment procedures and specs, those tractors all used basically the same designs but yet they are all different. Adjustment instructions always include the use of a number of "special tools" that may have been around fifty years ago but mechanics in most Massey shops I've tried don't have them, have no idea what they looked like, or what their dimensions were. Going "by the book" has never worked for me.

Usually what I do is work the draft and position control levers to see how the linkage acts. In a nutshell, It needs to operate the control valve roller by moving it back and forth to control the pump's oil flow into and out of the lift cylinder. as levers are moved and the rockshaft moves up and down. Sometimes the cover needs to be back in place to see if all that works as it should. I operate the levers, raise and lower the lift arms by hand, and observe this through the right side hole with cover off. If it looks right I put some oil in and try it out. It may require some additional tinkering to get the arms to full raise, hold, and lower, but most often works out well enough.

Thanks Harry, yes if the groove in the rockshaft cam doesn't matter, I won't mess with it. I am concerned about getting it smooth and level anyway for the roller....and I found the specs on the adjustments so I'll see if I can make heads or tails of it and I will do what you said and watch the linkage move and adjust it that way. My biggest concern is to not break the lift cover again by the rockshaft and piston pushing up on the cover trying to lift too far.
I remember when I got this tractor a year ago I would notice if I lifted the PTO arms up with the quadrant control, at the peak height it would bog the engine a bit, much like the pump was trying to lift beyond the range and hit a stop. I wonder if that could have been what eventually broke my cover when I was hung up on the tree and the pressure spike broke the case.
I don't know if that would be possible or not.
I am cleaning the PTO chamber out with diesel before I put the cover back on, lots of sludge in there.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

Here are the adjustment info from the shop manual. Attached