I was thinking about buying a bigger generator to power

[Geo-TH,In]

I was thinking about buying a bigger generator to power my well.

I have 2 3500 watt champion RV generators which can produce 30 amps 120v.

I think my new pump is 1/2 hp.
I'm not sure if 30 amps would be enough to start my well pump. So I looked into bigger generators.

I would have to go real big to top 120v and 30 amps. This generator is about $1500 and EFI.

Champion Power Equipment 100485 PRO 11,500/9,200-Watt Portable Generator with Carburetor-Free Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI) Engine and CO Shield.

I was surprised that generators bigger than my 3500 watt RV generator don't have more than 30 amps 120v at one plug.

I'm going to measure the LRA of my pump before seeing if my little 3500w champion can run my pump without damaging it.

I recently had my old jet pump replaced with a submersible pump. It cost me about $3k.
Last thing I want to do is burn up my pump.

I'm not looking for a whole house generator.
My 3500 watt generator is big enough for all my needs. I may have to only power the well when needed and not power Refrigerators and freezers.

I'm happy my generator burned 5 gallons of gas a day running 24 hours.

How big a generator do you use to power a 120v pump?
Is it an RV generator?

 

[caterpillar guy]

Just go buy a portable welder and solve the problem. Then you could let it set out in the shed to run and back feed from the shed to the house with no worry about fumes and house will go on like it hasn't even happened. Some of those will run in the 10-15,000 watt range. That would power your house with modest use and not damage anything. I use mine and by shutting everything off and starting each circuit one at a time like, well when it stops then ,start furnace and so on till everything is on. I don't try to have every light and all on at once and don't use the oven and some things while in this fix but it will run the water heater ,furnace,well, freezers,refrigerator, and such with no problems. Likely hood of them all coming on at once is pretty slim and once cycled will not all be on at once. If you really want to cure it all then get a PTO generator and run with your kubota. Watch farm sales and you can pick one up for a little of nothing and you could power your house and a couple of the neighbors houses with those. They will be in the 20-50,000 watt size or bigger.

 

[M-MAN]

A bigger generator is going to use a lot more gas. My 85/55 uses that much running half a day. The 30 amp plug is 220v.

Are you sure the pump is 120? Around here everyone runs them at 220. Since you're cutting the amps in half by running 220 you don't need as heavy a wire.

 

[MarkB_MI]

A 1/2 horsepower pump shouldn't need more than about 1500 volt-amps to start. Which is, of course, 13 amps at 120 volts. You're over-thinking this, George. How big is the circuit breaker for your pump? How big are the wires going to it? Unless you have a breaker that's bigger than 30 amps and wiring bigger than AWG 10, the pump can't pull more than 30 amps.

I'm a bit surprised the guy who put in your submersible didn't run a new 240V circuit and use a 240V pump. Maybe your panel was tapped out. At any rate, I don't think you need to worry about damaging the pump as long as you have at least 3 kW on tap.

Before we got our Honda EM6500, I ran a 2500W US Army Signal Corps generator from 1950. I suppose it was more like 3500 watts in reality, but only put out 115 volts. So I ran extension cords all over the place, just like you do. For our 1/3 hp 240 volt submersible pump, I used a 750 volt-amp autotransformer to kick it up to 230V. Worked like a champ, even while running two refrigerators and a freezer.

 

[john in la]

30 amps at 120 volts ?????

That sure is a lot of amps for 120. Usually anything that big runs on 220.

I have a 1 hp shallow well pump. While I run it on 220 it can be run on 110 and uses about 10 amps. Even figuring double amps to start it that is still only 20 amps of 110 for a 1 hp pump. My 5000 watt generator runs it with ease and power to spare.

 

[Aaron SEIA]

Whats the pump rated for? What size breaker is it running on in the house. I'm with several others who suggest the pump is running on 220.
AaronSEIA

 

[Ralph, Ohio]

Just be sure you get it right. A few years ago during a power outage I had a 6000 watt portable generator hooked up powering my 240 volt well pump, a refrigerator, freezer, etc. When the power came back on the submersible pump was dead & cost about $1500 to replace.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

Mark,
I'm a bit surprised the guy who put in your submersible didn't run a new 240V circuit and use a 240V pump.

Most people can't read my mind. I requested a 120v pump.

I know many people that had water damage to floors because of plumbing problems. One guy had to replace all the hardwood floors in his house.
I'm not talking about fake hardwood click and lock, I'm talking about the original oak hardwood that costs $9 a square foot to replace.

My sister was in florida during the winter. Frozen pipes damaged all her floors and the walls. That was an expensive mess.

So what does water damage have to do with me requesting a 120v pump?

Most water alarms are worthless if you are in Florida. This alarm is different. It makes a sound and has a small micro switch that closes when it senses water on the floor.

The wires on the left go to the switch and connect the ground to the neutral of a GFCI.
The wires on the right go to the floor to the water sensor.

How many people know that connecting ground to neutral will trip a GFCI?

I use a 20 amp GFCI which will power a 1/2 hp 120v submersible pump and not trip.

Now do you see why I requested a 120v pump?

By using a water alarm and a GFCI I prevent my basement from becoming a swimming pool.

You will have to trust me how many times I'm glad I made this water shutoff, shuts off my pump.

I have two wells, one at each of my places, that I requested 120v pumps.

Just because my house wiring uses 12g wire, 20 amp CB, doesn't mean my 30 amp RV generator can handle the starting amps.

Example: I use a 4 hp craftsman electric chainsaw. The starting amp, 75 amps. Running amps, 15 amps. Starting the chainsaw makes my generator shake and rattle for about 2 seconds each time I start it.

Most people don't seem to know or understand starting amps. My generator can't start a 1.5 hp air compressor because of starting amps.

Do you see my concern? Starting amps and burning up an expensive well pump.

My neighbor had to replace his pump.

He said the pump was about $1500 for the best pumps. Labor $1500.
My friend had to have his pump replaced yesterday. I don't know what that cost.

Now my power has returned, I will measure the starting amps before thinking about using my generator.

Will powerfactoring my pump and generator help get the pump started?

I don't think I'm over thinking this.
Instead some may not be thinking enough.

 

[ss55]

Three small generators each connected by extension cords is going to require a lot of futzing around just to get them hooked up. Once there are up and running they will still need to be watched continually and periodically refueled. You will be locked into babysitting these things until the power is restored.

I believe you are already connected to natural gas, why not bite the bullet and go to a whole house automatic generator?

 

[Russ from MN]

Backfeed??? I think that's a serious violation!

 

[MarkB_MI]

> How many people know that connecting ground to neutral will trip a GFCI?

Well, at least two: You and me. And I know only because you told me.

> Now do you see why I requested a 120v pump?

Well, yes, but wouldn't it be simpler to just turn off the water when you leave town?

> Most people don't seem to know or understand starting amps. My generator can't start a 1.5 hp air compressor because of starting amps.

Yes, I understand starting current is going to be a lot more than running current. But there's a world of difference between what it takes to start an air compressor versus a submersible pump.

> Will powerfactoring my pump and generator help get the pump started?

I dunno. I suspect your pump already has some sort of power factor correction. Stick a Kill-a-Watt meter between your pump and electrical outlet and you can read its power factor.

> I don't think I'm over thinking this.
> Instead some may not be thinking enough.

Well, George, I see your logic. But will you leave an instruction manual for the next owner of your house so they can understand how this is all supposed to work?

 

[PJH]

I have a deep well pump on 220 and a shallow well pump on 110. My 3500 watt Honda runs the deep well pump with ease. It grunts when the shallow well pump kicks on but does fine after starting it. I don't run either pump with other loads on the generator. I think that both pumps are 1 hp, but I may be mistaken.

 

[M-MAN]

Starting current is easily dealt with as long as you have the amps to run a motor. A Supco hard start kit is inexpensive and reliable. They are used all the time on refrigerators, freezers, ac units, etc. Available for 120v or 220v and available on Amazon. Yes they have one for 1/2 hp.

A simple outdoor box with a plug in and recepticle and put the cap inside and you can run anything.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

Well, yes, but wouldn't it be simpler to just turn off the water when you leave town?

My sister does turn her water off when she is in Florida.
For many reasons I don't turn my water off every time I'm not at home, do you??
My water alarm/GFCI is on duty 24/7.
And I thank God every time it does its job.

I do have a 100 gallon water tank I could put in my truck to have water to flush the toilets. Get bottled water for drinking.

I can't buy the 1/3 hp jet pump I left after having a new well drilled. It died 2 hours before Winn energy restored my power.

The pump seal leaked and the pump bearing crapped out. I doubt if parts are available to rebuild a 40 year old pump which is no longer sold.

Well, George, I see your logic. But will you leave an instruction manual for the next owner of your house so they can understand how this is all supposed to work?

I showed my son what I've done. I really don't care what happens after I'm dead, no longer my concern.

If the 9v battery discharges, the alarm doesn't work. I change the battery when the time changes, 2x a year. I use Li rechargeable batteries.

So did I over think things?

After measuring LRA I may decide to use my generator to power my new wells using a 12g extension cord and my 30 amp RV generator.
I will manually plug in the pump when I need water and measure current and watch the generator shake and rattle.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

When the power came back on the submersible pump was dead & cost about $1500 to replace.

Now you can see my situation.
I don't want to pay for a new pump.
I know lock rotor amps can be 5 to 10x the running current.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

A Supco hard start kit is inexpensive and reliable.

I've been using Hard start kits on Air conditioners for the past 50 years.

A hard start kit must to be connected to the start winding. You can't do that on a submersible pump that only has 2 wires coming out of the well.

A run capacitor helps with the power factor.

 

[DoubleO7]

Just to clarify......
Is you water leak detector and gfci on your well pump or on a sump pump??

 

[caterpillar guy]

So lets see Russ If I feed my house then run out to the shed or feed the shed and run back to the house what is the difference as long as it doesn't go up the pole? Juice flows either way once it is on the line. So why would back feeding the hose from the shed be such a bad thing?

 

[544hydro]

Whatever you do, don t buy a whole house generator with automatic transfer. That s way too easy and simple.

 

[Russ from MN]

I'm pretty sure there has to be a transfer switch at the source, so it's idiot proof. Where is John T when we need him?