Long 360 no power to rear wheels?

[DahWoodsman]

Hello everyone and thanks for any help in advance!
So I have a long 360 that was being used by the previous owner to yank a stump. He suddenly lost all power to the rear wheels.
I have the tractor in my shop and removed all access covers and final drives.
I’ve found nothing broken, pieces, shards chips or any medal of any kind at bottom of any area. Power comes thru the transmission with no issues so it’s 100% not the clutch, pressure plate or release bearing. It seems to be some issue with transferring power to the axles in the rear end but that’s an area I’m not familiar with. I see a hole in each pinion gear at the top and bottom of the pinion shaft. Would that have a pin or is it only there for oiling?

 

[used red MN]

Hello DW, welcome to YT! Are the splines of the side gears of the differential stripped out? You will have put the transmission in gear and jam a bar tip in the spider gears to keep them from turning. Then with a large Channel lock or pipe wrench turn what I would call the bull pinions(small gear in pics 9440 and 9441) to see if they strip over in those side gears.

 

[DahWoodsman]

I seen no wear at all but will look into your question and see. To be sure I’m understanding you correctly. Jamb the pinion gear in pics 9438 & 9439 then try a turn the final drive gear in pics 9440 & 9441 to see if something is stripped? Thanks

 

[marloweg]

clutch tractor or hydro ?

 

[used red MN]

clutch tractor or hydro ?

To me pic 9443 answers that question. Three shift rails usually indicates a standard transmission.

 

[used red MN]

I seen no wear at all but will look into your question and see. To be sure I’m understanding you correctly. Jamb the pinion gear in pics 9438 & 9439 then try a turn the final drive gear in pics 9440 & 9441 to see if something is stripped? Thanks

Yes, to see if the splines in these gears are still intact. Move one of the shift rails in pic 9443 into a gear to hold the ring gear. And yes holes are for oiling.

 

[Janicholson]

To me the bull pinions are not at the same distance from the carrier axle bearings looking at the two Final drive images. Broken drive axle? Jim

 

[DahWoodsman]

I reinstalled the final drives and wheels. With the wheels off the ground they turn while cranking. Once I apply pressure to the wheels the pinion gears jump away from the main gear. I’ve tried to attach a 12 second video but it encounters a problem each time

 

[DahWoodsman]

 

[DahWoodsman]

Both pinion gears is sliding up the shaft away from pressure

 

[funky_g00]

Hello everyone and thanks for any help in advance!
So I have a long 360 that was being used by the previous owner to yank a stump. He suddenly lost all power to the rear wheels.
I have the tractor in my shop and removed all access covers and final drives.
I’ve found nothing broken, pieces, shards chips or any medal of any kind at bottom of any area. Power comes thru the transmission with no issues so it’s 100% not the clutch, pressure plate or release bearing. It seems to be some issue with transferring power to the axles in the rear end but that’s an area I’m not familiar with. I see a hole in each pinion gear at the top and bottom of the pinion shaft. Would that have a pin or is it only there for oiling?

Since you have not found any evidence of damage. I would say you either have a broken shaft or stripped splines. I say work from both ends and meet in the middle. What I consider easiest to hardest. You pulled the final drives, so I assume you already looked over the stub axles and bull gear splines. Next would be to either pull or try to turn the bull pinion shafts as already discussed to check for stripped splines. From there you will have to pull the differential and see if the input pinion shaft and gear did not shear. Should you still find nothing all that's left is clutch and transmission. At this point I would revisit the clutch housing and split the tractor. You say you are 100% sure it is not the clutch, but it could be the input shaft sheared off. Finally, something in the transmission went bad and disassembly will be required.

 

[used red MN]

What are you calling the “pinion gears” that is jumping away from the main gear(s)? I can only assume you know how a differential works. If the ring gear and differential carrier are held stationary with wheels in the air if you turn one wheel forward the other will turn backwards. Are you sure that this is not what you are encountering when you apply the pressure? Or when cranking the engine if you stop one wheel the other wheel will spin twice as fast.
I personally think you have mis diagnosed a clutch problem. How hard is it to reconnect the brakes? Do that and hold them on and crank the starter and see if the transmission gears turn. I personally would put a chain hook in the differential and anchor it to something on the back on the tractor then you wouldn’t have to mess with the brakes. An unorthodox process for sure. On the other hand I would have never gotten to this point without knowing for sure if the clutch was the problem.
Can you pry that differential carrier and ring gear side to side to see if the bearings are loose as heck? Nothing really shows a problem like that. Can you get to the drive pinion to pry or wiggle it around to see if the problem it there?

 

[DahWoodsman]

I’ve checked all those things and the problem is the pinion gears in the video are jumping away from the main gear once resistance is applied. I’m just not familiar with those gears and what the fix would be for them. I’m assuming it’s something to do with the brass bushing that’s under the pinion gears. I can’t simply lift them up the shaft with my finger as if something should be above the gears to keep them from sliding up the shaft. In the video if you look closely and watch a couple times you can see the pinion gear jump away. Anyone have a line on a schematic

 

[funky_g00]

View attachment 82019

Are both wheels on the ground with pressure on them in the video? If yes, then you definitely have a problem with one of the bull pinion shafts. With both wheels on the ground the side gears should be doing the same thing, in your video you will notice that the left gear is staying put and the right one is doing a pulsating turn. Either the right wheel is spinning, or you have bad splines on the right-side gear and/or shaft.

 

[funky_g00]

I’ve checked all those things and the problem is the pinion gears in the video are jumping away from the main gear once resistance is applied. I’m just not familiar with those gears and what the fix would be for them. I’m assuming it’s something to do with the brass bushing that’s under the pinion gears. I can’t simply lift them up the shaft with my finger as if something should be above the gears to keep them from sliding up the shaft. In the video if you look closely and watch a couple times you can see the pinion gear jump away. Anyone have a line on a schematic

I watched your video again and I see what you mean. The little gears which are called planetary gears have too much free play. You will have to remove that pin that they are on and roll them out. You either need to replace/add some shims or the differential carrier spread/cracked and will need to be replaced. The differential will need to come out and further inspected to see if it is a shim, bearing or carrier problem. Sorry, I cannot help with a schematic or parts breakdown.

 

[Janicholson]

I’ve checked all those things and the problem is the pinion gears in the video are jumping away from the main gear once resistance is applied. I’m just not familiar with those gears and what the fix would be for them. I’m assuming it’s something to do with the brass bushing that’s under the pinion gears. I can’t simply lift them up the shaft with my finger as if something should be above the gears to keep them from sliding up the shaft. In the video if you look closely and watch a couple times you can see the pinion gear jump away. Anyone have a line on a schematic

The gears on either side are called side gears. the two gears that tumble are called spider gears. The axle drive shafts going to the final drives in the housings by the wheels are shown as splines in the center of the differential and are splined to the side gears. I think the bushing on one spider is sticking out where it should not be. I also think the side gear on the left in the images is not close enough to the other one. a bearing that holds it in place may have failed. The top spider can be seen going low (toward the other spider below it. that "top" spider should be against its cup shape bushing all the time. There is also (as I pointed out) the appearance of one drive axle being farther away from its bearing (out by the final drives. I think that the differential needs to be taken apart. Jim

 

[used red MN]

Okay, I also see what you mean. It looks like the spyder pin cannot come out to do the repair without the ring gear being removed. It does not look like it will come out even after the retainers I circled have been removed. Even if the pin slides down enough to clear one gear it will not come out because both spyders gears have to turn out of place simultaneously.

 

[DahWoodsman]

Thanks guys. I’ll get it pulled and see what I see. I’ll update you guys and once again appreciate the help due to this is the one area I’m not very familiar with.

 

[Janicholson]

Thanks guys. I’ll get it pulled and see what I see. I’ll update you guys and once again appreciate the help due to this is the one area I’m not very familiar with.

Save all shims and make sure they stay in order and where they are placed, left right up down and side to side. Take an image after every component is removed as it is leaving! Jim

 

[funky_g00]

Okay, I also see what you mean. It looks like the spyder pin cannot come out to do the repair without the ring gear being removed. It does not look like it will come out even after the retainers I circled have been removed. Even if the pin slides down enough to clear one gear it will not come out because both spyders gears have to turn out of place simultaneously. View attachment 82022

This just a guess since I not familiar with long tractors or that style of differential, but it looks like you will have to remove the snap rings that hold the shafts in the side gears. Remove both shafts and the differential should come out. Once that is out you can remove the ring gear and the pin retainers so the spider pin can be removed completely. Normally if you can remove the pin retainer the pin will come completely out barely clearing the ring gear but is necessary in order to remove the snap rings that hold in the axle shafts.