MF 135

[Shakebaker]

Was shredding awhile back when it died while it was running. Couldn't get it to restart at the time so towed it to the house.
It will turn over just fine but can't seem to get a spark. My son who is an auto mechanic tried a few things. He checked and cleaned the carb , replaced the spark plugs , new spark plug wires and a new coil. Cleaned out the fuel sediment bottle. We even put a new battery in but no luck. It just turns over but never gets any " fire ".
Not sure what to try next or just take it in to a tractor mechanic. It had been running fine seemingly until it died that day and now just nothing.
Any guessing we can try ourselves or anyone who had this happen who can point who what to try next ??
Thanks

 

[Jim.ME]

Was shredding awhile back when it died while it was running. Couldn't get it to restart at the time so towed it to the house.
It will turn over just fine but can't seem to get a spark. My son who is an auto mechanic tried a few things. He checked and cleaned the carb , replaced the spark plugs , new spark plug wires and a new coil. Cleaned out the fuel sediment bottle. We even put a new battery in but no luck. It just turns over but never gets any " fire ".
Not sure what to try next or just take it in to a tractor mechanic. It had been running fine seemingly until it died that day and now just nothing.
Any guessing we can try ourselves or anyone who had this happen who can point who what to try next ??
Thanks

It looks like you posted a similar problem of running and quit back in 2017. What did you find for a problem back then?

There is no secret there that needs a "tractor mechanic". You/your son have changed several things but did not look at the heart of the system, or if he did, you don't say. Unless you have an electronic ignition, your son should check the points. First see if they are getting power and second see if they are functioning. If he doesn't know how to check them post back. I don't know your son and I only say that as due to the technology changes many young mechanics are great on the current electronics, but plain old points are a mystery to them, no different than chasing electronic problems can be difficult for some of us old guys.

 

[Shakebaker]

He mentioned checking the points next. He lives 4/5 hrs away so was trying to so what I could before he could get over here. He's pretty handy with old school stuff and not just the current electronics but isn't well versed at all on tractors. So looks like he was in the right track maybe. Thanks

 

[Jim.ME]

He mentioned checking the points next. He lives 4/5 hrs away so was trying to so what I could before he could get over here. He's pretty handy with old school stuff and not just the current electronics but isn't well versed at all on tractors. So looks like he was in the right track maybe. Thanks

Do you have a test light? if you do, there are a couple quick checks you can do. Tractor in neutral (I believe the HI-Lo has to be for the neutral start switch). First, turn the key on and see if you have power to the small terminal of the coil with the wire from the switch connected to it. If you do not have power there, you need to chase back to the switch to find out where it is lost. Next put the probe of the test light on the other small terminal of the coil (the one going to the distributor). then crank the engine over. If the light doesn't flash off and on the points are not working. post back with the results of the two tests.

 

[[email protected]]

With the distributor cap off, can you see the rotor spin when it's turning over? If you put all of these new parts in it, I would look a bit further and outside the box. If it's spinning, re-gap your points with .05 more opening.

 

[Ray,IN]

Temporarily bypass the neutral switch with a jumper wire that replaces the switch. That will eliminate this switch from the equation. Just be sure to have both shifters in neutral to avoid an accident.

 

[Jim.ME]

With the distributor cap off, can you see the rotor spin when it's turning over? If you put all of these new parts in it, I would look a bit further and outside the box. If it's spinning, re-gap your points with .05 more opening.

Did you mean .005? .05 is more than twice the gap (.022) they run at.

Edit:

Shakebaker,

Which engine does your 135 have? The MF 135 Service manual gives the point setting for the Perkins 3-cylinder gas 3.152 engine as .021". The setting for the Continental 4-cylinder Z145 is .018" to .024".

 

[Shakebaker]

Thanks for the input so far. Had to leave over the weekend but back in a few days to start trying some of these suggestions. Will up date when back.
Oh it's continental engine.
I don't know how to bypass the neutral switch so any input on that appreciated

 

[Jim.ME]

Thanks for the input so far. Had to leave over the weekend but back in a few days to start trying some of these suggestions. Will up date when back.
Oh it's continental engine.
I don't know how to bypass the neutral switch so any input on that appreciated

The neutral start switch is in the starter circuit, not the ignition circuit. If the engine turns over with the starter with the Hi-Lo in neutral (or anytime if the neutral switch has been bypassed already) when you turn the key, you don't need to concern yourself with bypassing the neutral switch.

Get the points changed and properly gapped (go for .021", the center of the .018 to .024 range the manual gives). Once they are in and set clean/burnish the point contacts by rubbing some card stock, a piece of brown paper bag, even a folded-up dollar bill between the contacts to clean any film off them.

If you have a Delco Remy distributor, I believe these are the Part numbers for the for the points and condenser. I use Standard Motor Products brand (their Blue Streak grade). I have not had any trouble with SMP condensers, but as a general rule, don't throw the old condenser away. Condenser failures, of many brands, have been commonly reported by many people.


Points and condenser: MF # 839008M91 Kit (Points: SMP # DR 2240X, Condenser: SMP # DR 90X)

 

[[email protected]]

Did you mean .005? .05 is more than twice the gap (.022) they run at.

Correct. .005 more open. For some reason, it just works for me with today's points. The "other color" calls for .015 and .018, by the time I am happy it's closer to .020 and .023.

 

[Liquid_wrench]

Be sure to replace the condenser.

 

[Shakebaker]

Finally got back to the place to work on it some more. So now have spark to all 4 plugs after checking them. Previously didn't but changed points and new coil and now that seems to be good.
However still just turns over but doesn't fire up at all. So assume it's got to be fuel but not sure where to start now. We had previously cleaned the carburetor out and new air filter and cleaned sediment bowl.
So what's first thing to check now or look into ? Thanks for any advice

 

[Jim.ME]

Finally got back to the place to work on it some more. So now have spark to all 4 plugs after checking them. Previously didn't but changed points and new coil and now that seems to be good.
However still just turns over but doesn't fire up at all. So assume it's got to be fuel but not sure where to start now. We had previously cleaned the carburetor out and new air filter and cleaned sediment bowl.
So what's first thing to check now or look into ? Thanks for any advice

Check gas flow to the carb for starters. With a container, larger than a pint, pull the drain plug from the carb bowl and see how long it takes to get at least a pint. You should see a heavy run when the plug is removed as the bowl empties. It should settle back to a smaller steady flow once the bowl is empty.

If you can put some gas in a spray bottle and spray some in the carb while cranking the engine and see if it starts. If it does that pretty well points to a fuel issue.

 

[Shakebaker]

So we were not getting much if any flow into the carb. So we cleaned out the sediment bowl and it was full of gunk where the fuel line was. After we did that we are getting good fuel flow into the carb. However still no start. Just turns over but never fires at all. So not sure since we were still getting a spark from all the plugs. Maybe not enough spark ? Seems just going in circles as what to try next.

 

[Jim.ME]

So we were not getting much if any flow into the carb. So we cleaned out the sediment bowl and it was full of gunk where the fuel line was. After we did that we are getting good fuel flow into the carb. However still no start. Just turns over but never fires at all. So not sure since we were still getting a spark from all the plugs. Maybe not enough spark ? Seems just going in circles as what to try next.

Did you try spraying some gas in the carburetor throat while cranking to see if it starts that way?

Has the distributor been moved since it last ran?

Were the plug wires removed and replaced in incorrect location/order?

How far will the spark jump? 1/8", 1/4", ??

 

[Shakebaker]

I did try spraying into the carb but no reaction at all. Double checked plug wires and they are in correct location according to diagram I found online just to be sure.
The distributor we changed the points and plug wires. Also think I mentioned put in new coil as well.

 

[stevieb49829]

I did try spraying into the carb but no reaction at all. Double checked plug wires and they are in correct location according to diagram I found online just to be sure.
The distributor we changed the points and plug wires. Also think I mentioned put in new coil as well.

I think what Jim is asking is if you pulled the distributor loose enough to rotate its position. That could put the ignition timing off enough the tractor will not even pop. And if you pull the plugs, are they wet with fuel, or completely dry? What this sounds like to me is the fuel flow was interrupted by sludge or debris and the tractor quit on you. You now have cleaned out the sludge enough to get flow to the carburetor, but the passages are probably plugged in the carburetor. If the spark plugs are dry after trying to start it by spraying gas into the inlet, then you have problems with the valves not closing enough to suck gas into the cylinders. If the plugs are wet, you have an ignition problem whereby the spark is either too weak or happening at the wrong time (timing). steve

 

[Shakebaker]

Ok thanks. Finally got a back fire and some coughing and spitting from it. Woudnt fire up but that's as much as we have gotten from it since it quit on us. Maybe some progress.

 

[stevieb49829]

I did try spraying into the carb but no reaction at all. Double checked plug wires and they are in correct location according to diagram I found online just to be sure.
The distributor we changed the points and plug wires. Also think I mentioned put in new coil as well.

When you say new coil, do you mean the condenser inside (or attached to the outside) of the distributor, or a stand-alone ignition coil, about 5-6" tall? Some terminology can be confusing. steve

Ok thanks. Finally got a back fire and some coughing and spitting from it. Woudnt fire up but that's as much as we have gotten from it since it quit on us. Maybe some progress.

That says your distributor and coil are probably working. Find a squeeze bottle, fill it with gas, and have someone feed gas into the carb as you crank it. I like to used mixed gas (chainsaw or boat gas) in the squirt bottle. It gives a little lube that wouldn't be in the cylinders otherwise. If it starts to run, it's time to pull the carb apart and clean all the crud out of all the passageways.

You'll have to give us a picture of the carb if you need help tearing it down and thoroughly cleaning it. And I suspect there is even more crud in the tank just waiting to break loose and be your next problem. steve

 

[Jim.ME]

I did try spraying into the carb but no reaction at all. Double checked plug wires and they are in correct location according to diagram I found online just to be sure.
The distributor we changed the points and plug wires. Also think I mentioned put in new coil as well.

Spraying gas, with a spray bottle, into the intake should have given a fire, even if there were plugged ports in the carb.

Pull number one spark plug and see if it is wet with unfired gas. Next put it beside the hole, with the sparkplug wire connected to the plug, and crank the engine over with the starter. Watch to see if the spark occurs at the same time, you hear the compression come up. If there is gas and fuel at the right time you may get a pop as the mix coming out of the hole ignites. I say check that as if you had all the plug wires off the cap at the same time, the rotor may not have been in the same position inside the distributor, during the installation of the distributor, as the diagram you found online. Basically, this is checking that # 1 is firing when it is at Top Dead Center on the compression stroke. Or have you or your son already confirmed the rotor is pointing at # 1 when that piston is TDC on its compression stroke?