MF 202 Electrical Issue

[[email protected]]

Hello
My MF 202 is sitting 125 miles away, stalled. I can't seem to get is started. Here are the steps I took. a) Battery is fully charged, good there. b) Purchased new Coil c) Purchased new ignition switch. Purchased new push button. I verified the Neutral Safety switch is connected.
So the new ignition and new push button was getting nothing. So I bypassed the Button by putting NSS wire direct to battery, and it turns over. So somehow the ignition switch does not seem to be getting the power to pass on to the Coil.
Does anyone have any trouble shooting ideas to apply here? If so, please be specific, such as Set Voltmeter to Dc, "place the red part of Voltmeter on xxx and the black wire on xx, and it should read xxx"
Thanks
Bill

 

[stevieb49829]

Hello
My MF 202 is sitting 125 miles away, stalled. I can't seem to get is started. Here are the steps I took. a) Battery is fully charged, good there. b) Purchased new Coil c) Purchased new ignition switch. Purchased new push button. I verified the Neutral Safety switch is connected.
So the new ignition and new push button was getting nothing. So I bypassed the Button by putting NSS wire direct to battery, and it turns over. So somehow the ignition switch does not seem to be getting the power to pass on to the Coil.
Does anyone have any trouble shooting ideas to apply here? If so, please be specific, such as Set Voltmeter to Dc, "place the red part of Voltmeter on xxx and the black wire on xx, and it should read xxx"
Thanks
Bill

Bill, I'm a bit confused with your description, but I want to understand what's going on. Is this a new to you tractor you don't know well, or have you been using it in the past?

If this is a typical gas powered electrical system (not a diesel) the ignition switch supplies battery power to the coil. On some, it also supplies power to the starter solenoid via a spring loaded position on the switch. But in your case, it sounds like it provides power to your push button start switch?

Does your "push button" only have two heavy duty lugs on it? If that's the case, you should have a heavy battery cable going to one of the lugs from the (+)battery, and another similar cable from the other lug going directly to the starter lug. The push button simply shorts between these cables and engages the starter. You may also have a safety circuit, running through the push button and the neutral safety switch, but I don't know how that works.

Then in a separate circuit, you should have a wire from your battery directly to the "B" or "BAT" terminal on your key switch. That wire supplies the rest of the electrical system, like your ignition coil and other wires to your accessories such as lights (and maybe your ignition safety circuit)

Someone with more exact knowledge on this tractor will be along shortly to sort this out. Welcome to YT. steve

 

[Stan Coryell]

Hello
My MF 202 is sitting 125 miles away, stalled. I can't seem to get is started. Here are the steps I took. a) Battery is fully charged, good there. b) Purchased new Coil c) Purchased new ignition switch. Purchased new push button. I verified the Neutral Safety switch is connected.
So the new ignition and new push button was getting nothing. So I bypassed the Button by putting NSS wire direct to battery, and it turns over. So somehow the ignition switch does not seem to be getting the power to pass on to the Coil.
Does anyone have any trouble shooting ideas to apply here? If so, please be specific, such as Set Voltmeter to Dc, "place the red part of Voltmeter on xxx and the black wire on xx, and it should read xxx"
Thanks
Bill

It sounds like you have lost 12V positive to the key switch? It also sounds like if you put 12V positive to the neutral safety switch the starter cranks the engine? Correct?

If so:
With the ignition off, check for 12 volts at terminal B on the voltage regulator. Black to ground and Red to B. You should have 12 volts. If 0V, ammeter shorted open (unlikely) or bad wiring between starter solenoid and Voltage Regulator. If 12V, go to next step.

With the ignition off check for 12V at terminal L. You should have 12V. If no, there is a problem with the Voltage Regulator. If yes, next step.

Check wiring between VR and ignition switch.

VR:
G is on the back
B is in the middle
F and L may be left or right. F is usually a smaller wire and goes to the generator.

All this assumes the tractor is wired per factory. See attached schematic.

Stop throwing parts at it. You will regret it.

 

[[email protected]]

It sounds like you have lost 12V positive to the key switch? It also sounds like if you put 12V positive to the neutral safety switch the starter cranks the engine? Correct?

If so:
With the ignition off, check for 12 volts at terminal B on the voltage regulator. Black to ground and Red to B. You should have 12 volts. If 0V, ammeter shorted open (unlikely) or bad wiring between starter solenoid and Voltage Regulator. If 12V, go to next step.

With the ignition off check for 12V at terminal L. You should have 12V. If no, there is a problem with the Voltage Regulator. If yes, next step.

Check wiring between VR and ignition switch.

VR:
G is on the back
B is in the middle
F and L may be left or right. F is usually a smaller wire and goes to the generator.

All this assumes the tractor is wired per factory. See attached schematic.

Stop throwing parts at it. You will regret it.

Thank You , Stan, will try out these steps

 

[[email protected]]

It sounds like you have lost 12V positive to the key switch? It also sounds like if you put 12V positive to the neutral safety switch the starter cranks the engine? Correct?

If so:
With the ignition off, check for 12 volts at terminal B on the voltage regulator. Black to ground and Red to B. You should have 12 volts. If 0V, ammeter shorted open (unlikely) or bad wiring between starter solenoid and Voltage Regulator. If 12V, go to next step.

With the ignition off check for 12V at terminal L. You should have 12V. If no, there is a problem with the Voltage Regulator. If yes, next step.

Check wiring between VR and ignition switch.

VR:
G is on the back
B is in the middle
F and L may be left or right. F is usually a smaller wire and goes to the generator.

All this assumes the tractor is wired per factory. See attached schematic.

Stop throwing parts at it. You will regret it.

Stan, can you tell me what the Ammeeter looks like, or where is it located ? under the dash? I will use your troubleshooting, butat first glance, it appears that no current is getting to the Ignition.

 

[Stan Coryell]

The ammeter is/ was in the dash. I think all of the 202s had them.
Generic picture:

 

[[email protected]]

The ammeter is/ was in the dash. I think all of the 202s had them.
Generic picture:

Stan, since the tractor is 123 miles away, and the nearest hardware store is over an hour, I'd like a way to by pass things such as the ammeter. Is there a way to direct wire the whole shebang direct from the battery to the Ignition?

 

[stevieb49829]

The ammeter is just a gauge, showing you electrical current, so is not imperative to the tractor running. If you have one in the dash, just move all the wires onto one of the two terminals of the gauge. You'll just be using it as a connection block for all the wiring, instead of running the current through the gauge. That will take the gauge out of the equation. The shortest shortcut is to run a hotwire from your battery hot (+) directly to the (+) on the coil. This will get you current directly to the ignition system. Then all you have to worry about is turning over the starter, which it sounds like you can make work. Just don't leave the hotwire on after the tractor is no longer running. It will drain your battery and may destroy your coil.

 

[Stan Coryell]

Bill,
The dash on these is tough to work on. It needs to come off to properly get to the switches and guages. I wouldn't try to disconnect anything until you know what's wrong. Often, the situation is made worse.

My guess: It's either a bad wire/ connection or maybe something is bad in the voltage regulator. A fuse may have been added and blown. Check the VR as I said.

The cheap VRs are junk.

The shortcut for starting and running:

"The shortest shortcut is to run a hotwire from your battery hot (+) directly to the (+) on the coil. This will get you current directly to the ignition system. Then all you have to worry about is turning over the starter, which it sounds like you can make work. Just don't leave the hotwire on after the tractor is no longer running." And wreck the points.

Pictures of mine. Is this what you have?

 

[stevieb49829]

Now I'm curious Stan. Does it really have a push button for the starter? Which energizes the solenoid through the neutral safety switch, then? That would make sense given his original description. steve

 

[Brown David]

Now I'm curious Stan. Does it really have a push button for the starter? Which energizes the solenoid through the neutral safety switch, then? That would make sense given his original description. steve

Mine does, factory original.

 

[Stan Coryell]

Now I'm curious Stan. Does it really have a push button for the starter? Which energizes the solenoid through the neutral safety switch, then? That would make sense given his original description. steve

They do have a separate push button for the starter. I'd imagine the gas 35, 135, 2135, 202, and 203 are all the same. Likely others. I'm not sure why they didn't use a "conventional" ignition switch and use "accessory" for the lights.

Power: From battery through ammeter to Voltage Regulator (B), out to ignition switch (L).

As I understand it: The generator charges the battery (priority), the lights and ignition run off the generator until it can't keep up, at which point additional power is drawn from the battery. (Feel free to correct me)

Key switch as follows:
Off
Ignition
Ignition and lights
Lights

Push button: (with key switch on ignition)
Power to neutral safety switch (then to start solenoid)

 

[stevieb49829]

Always learning something new. That's why I ask the stupid questions: to stop being stupid so much. I appreciate the help, maybe almost as much as the original poster. steve

 

[[email protected]]

Bill,
The dash on these is tough to work on. It needs to come off to properly get to the switches and guages. I wouldn't try to disconnect anything until you know what's wrong. Often, the situation is made worse.

My guess: It's either a bad wire/ connection or maybe something is bad in the voltage regulator. A fuse may have been added and blown. Check the VR as I said.

The cheap VRs are junk.

The shortcut for starting and running:

"The shortest shortcut is to run a hotwire from your battery hot (+) directly to the (+) on the coil. This will get you current directly to the ignition system. Then all you have to worry about is turning over the starter, which it sounds like you can make work. Just don't leave the hotwire on after the tractor is no longer running." And wreck the points.

Pictures of mine. Is this what you have?

Stan, those pics look like mine, will get out there and let you know, thanks

 

[[email protected]]

They do have a separate push button for the starter. I'd imagine the gas 35, 135, 2135, 202, and 203 are all the same. Likely others. I'm not sure why they didn't use a "conventional" ignition switch and use "accessory" for the lights.

Power: From battery through ammeter to Voltage Regulator (B), out to ignition switch (L).

As I understand it: The generator charges the battery (priority), the lights and ignition run off the generator until it can't keep up, at which point additional power is drawn from the battery. (Feel free to correct me)

Key switch as follows:
Off
Ignition
Ignition and lights
Lights

Push button: (with key switch on ignition)
Power to neutral safety switch (then to start solenoid)

Stan , your troubleshooting led me to the Ammeter. I think it was either corroded, or shorted. So I joined the two wires, and rewired the old wiring according to your diagram, and it fired up right away ! Thanks

 

[Stan Coryell]

Stan , your troubleshooting led me to the Ammeter. I think it was either corroded, or shorted. So I joined the two wires, and rewired the old wiring according to your diagram, and it fired up right away ! Thanks

Bill, that's good to hear! I don't think I've ever had an ammeter fail like that. I would try to clean up the terminals and see if I could get it working again.

If you choose to replace it, stay away from the $20 junk. It's an exercise in futility. VDO, Stewart Warner, or Autometer. I'm not sure if Autometer is still making any ammeters. Autometer 30 amp Marine preferably.

I like an ammeter with the old mechanical Voltage Regulators. I can watch the contacts "close in" when the battery is being charged. I can also bump the engine around and tell if the points are closed. I would likely check ebay for NOS.

 

[Stan Coryell]

Always learning something new. That's why I ask the stupid questions: to stop being stupid so much. I appreciate the help, maybe almost as much as the original poster. steve

Stevie- I don't think you asked any stupid questions. I also don't care to hear people talk like that.

A long time ago my Father taught me some important lessons in humility. However, I don't think my Father would be able to define the word humility. (He is humble in his way)

Not in any particular order (also paraphrased and politely put):
1. Ask for help.
2. Read the instructions.
3. You might have to read the instructions five times before they sink in.
4. Read the instructions again.
5. Books equal education,but only if you take the time to understand what you read.
6. Always be honest, especially with yourself
7. Get an education, or you'll be digging ditches for the rest of your life.
8. Anyone willing and able to learn should be given every opportunity to do so

We should all be here to learn, and help (when we can). I am.

Stan Coryell
Mickleton, NJ
Journeyman Sheet Metal Worker, Local 19, Philadelphia

 

[[email protected]]

Bill, that's good to hear! I don't think I've ever had an ammeter fail like that. I would try to clean up the terminals and see if I could get it working again.

If you choose to replace it, stay away from the $20 junk. It's an exercise in futility. VDO, Stewart Warner, or Autometer. I'm not sure if Autometer is still making any ammeters. Autometer 30 amp Marine preferably.

I like an ammeter with the old mechanical Voltage Regulators. I can watch the contacts "close in" when the battery is being charged. I can also bump the engine around and tell if the points are closed. I would likely check ebay for NOS.

Stan, Thought I'd not start a new thread and ask you, you may know this,
So the power steering on the MF is not working, I've been powering thru it. We added fluid once, and it worked fine,but the next day, it was back to not working. I wonder where the fluid went? However, my real question...I assume the pump is shot? Is that a big job? If i have a step by step, I can do it myself (hopefully) unless there is some specialized toods.
Bill

 

[Stan Coryell]

Stan, Thought I'd not start a new thread and ask you, you may know this,
So the power steering on the MF is not working, I've been powering thru it. We added fluid once, and it worked fine,but the next day, it was back to not working. I wonder where the fluid went? However, my real question...I assume the pump is shot? Is that a big job? If i have a step by step, I can do it myself (hopefully) unless there is some

Bill- it's better to start a new thread. It makes the issue searchable in the future.

Your tractor has three manuals. Operator's, Parts, and Service.

The Operator's Manual gives basic system function, tune up, and basic operation. When I say "basic," I mean the manual tells you exactly how the power steering functions.

The Parts Book gives exploded diagrams and part numbers. (Your tractor shares a lot of parts with the 35, 135, and 2135). The Parts Book allows you to search the Internet by part number. It also gives assembly order.

The service manual gives specific instructions, for example, how to rebuild the steering box and power steering valve.

All three books work together. The are available from AGCO. I bought a set from Jensales. They aren't exactly correct and the pictures are awful. If you plan on keeping and improving the tractor, you need the manuals.

Start a new thread. But in the meantime, if you are loosing power steering fluid: visible leak, steering valve into the steering box, or power steering pump into the engine crankcase.

The pump is three bolts, two hoses and $600?. I'd at least try to replace the input seal. Two pumps were available. Barnes and Cesna. I only have experience with the Cessna. I believe the only available replacement is the Cessna.