new electric range/old range power supply

[kencombs]

I learned really quickly that' 'ground' meant something else to city electric crew when discussing my new service. You know the old earth ground vs grounded conductor thing.

I’m not surprised a phone tech not understanding the nec if that’s what you’re talking about, many electricians and engineers especially if not power engineers or lay persons are in the same boat. It was only after years of experience in the power engineering field and attending numerous nec seminars and workshops I finally got a grasp on the basics, but now that I’m long retired from power engineering I’m wayyy behind but try to help the best I can. Even for engineers it’s hard to comprehend because any paragraph references back to others and they in turn do the same it’s hard to follow grrrrrr. Grounding and Bonding atent the same and when and where to ground or bond takes up an entire sectio in the code and it’s hard to follow even for engineers and electricians grrrrr

Best wishes take care be safe. As I always say where fire and life safety are at stake consider at least consulting with trained competent professionsl engineers and electricians versus say you tube or Billy Bob or bubba or some forum, me certainly included as I’m long retired.

PS. Grounded may mean two different things. In my day we called it earthing or earth grounded when we. Spoke of tor example driving a rod into Mother Earth. (Earthing) that can be called grounding as when the hv primary and lv secondary neutrals are earth grounded, then there’s the whole thing called ground or grounding when appliances are attached to the third safety wire the EGC

John T

 

[John T]

I learned really quickly that' 'ground' meant something else to city electric crew when discussing my new service. You know the old earth ground vs grounded conductor thing.

Yeppers. Earthing or earth grounding is the process of connecting the neutral to grounding electrodes such as driven rods or buried water pipes etc and a reason why it’s called a grounded conductor versus the hot as the ungrounded conductor. Then the green:bare is the equipment grounding conductor

Nice chatting with you

John T

 

[Ericp351]

The neutral is an energized , load current carrying conductor . People are lulled into a false sense of security because the neutral is supposed to be no more than 10V over earth potential.

Is that 1O V really 10, or 10 root mean and properly squared?

 

[Sberry]

If you say so, as I DID Not! "Code" is needed when men do not or cannot honestly and capably ply their trade. WAY better than nothing, like a safety on a gun. Better: work out problem after understanding. "Code" is great for those who understand to "check the plan". Sadly- "code" is required for the "tab-a--slot B" types! Better than nothing, but no 'safety' can make anything 'idiot proof'! Again- think gun handling. I'd rather not to have a gun pointed at me, even without any 'safety', then a loaded one WITH a safety aimed my way!

What can a guy say to this without sounding like the puncture wound I usually am but spoken like a true amateur for lack of better wording.

 

[Sberry]

John. The old phone techs were well trained and follow proper installation. Then slightly different owner and hire high school bus etc and I asked ,, any training or school? No. They rode with Bill for 2 weeks before they it him in the truck.
Bill was already a new hire.

 

[Sberry]

I did reply to that post above. This is a guy that they try to get rid of and the reason we have the regulation on the first place
Almost impossible to train and figures he is so smart the self learning he has done is far superior to generations of experts and doesn't have a clue why it isn't , ain't worth the effort to explain even some simple aspects of code.
Can we grasp what a mess we would have if we didn't wire any 3 outlets the same.

 

[Sberry]

I don't read this forum a lot and appreciate a little bio and can relate to the speed of learning.
I started out knowing everything when I learned to size a wire to outlet and took me a long time and Some study to grasp i really don't know.
I have some good skillsets that make some s good wireman and I am code savy In the specific areas I work in.
Despite the fact that some people incl a couple inspectors think I am electrician I prolly couldn't pass a test.

 

[Sberry]

After some long while of study I have never found anything I knew more about it than the book and found if I didn't understand it want the fault of the book.

 

[Sberry]

I handle some service calls. Mostly role I know but got one to a modular and owner was surprised I asked when it was built.
I can usually tell by looking at kitchen and bath but knowing something about code cycles tells you how it's wired.
I yank the cover,,, sure as shat the handyman couldn't even get out of the box without a couple code violations incl the fault.

 

[Sberry]

Our local Poco used to promote within. The field eng/design were promoted linemen. Now they are new hires and no experience and don't even know their own equipment and have hard time with simple sketch.

 

[John T]

John. The old phone techs were well trained and follow proper installation. Then slightly different owner and hire high school bus etc and I asked ,, any training or school? No. They rode with Bill for 2 weeks before they it him in the truck.
Bill was already a new hire.

Thanks for the update
John

 

[drsportster]

The Code is written by a group of people from the trade ? The NFPA [National Fire Protection Assoc. ] is the publisher Fire Prevention is the reason for code The code writers meet to discuss any changes The code being written in legalese rather than layman's terms is just the nature of the business You need all those " Shalls and Shall nots needed to state the exact meaning of the code. My old Business Manager in the IBEW sat on the code board for a few books

 

[Sberry]

I was really lucky they didn't toss me off ETF. Was an old forum with Keis, a guy named Don I see on Holt yet, must be a fossil by now. Seems he was old then and it was a code study outfit. An old DIY and a self help with Warren Goodrich. They were a serious bunch and patient till the lights came on.
Couple of them were on the code board.

 

[Sberry]

They use legal and precise to reduce complicated explanations. I see there is a big book on grounding. I am sure most of it is overly head but I get the general idea and say when asked ,, know the difference between the green or bare and the white wire and no one much asks after that, ha.