New Holland 461 and 477 haybines

[A . M. Aitkins]

Hello all I am looking at buying a New Holland 461 or 477 haybine. I had a chance to look at both of them and they are both in good shape except for the rollers on the 477 are missing some rubber in the middle. The person selling them wants $350 a piece is that a fair price? As of now I was leaning towards getting the 461 due to the better rollers but I would still consider the 477 if it's the better machine. What are your opinions on the 461 and 477? what are the pros and cons between these two models?

Any of your input will be much appreciated thanks

 

[showcrop]

The rubber can go away very quickly one they get to that point. I would be checking the bearings of the rolls. and for excessive slack and seals to the gear boxes, since you have two side by side to make comparisons. How about that IH 990? They have an extremely good reputation.

 

[tom upton]

The 477 is only a 7 foot cut where the 461 is I think 8? I believe the 477 is a newer model, but like you say the rolls look pretty good on the 461. The tires on the 477 look to be pretty good? Problem with both those machines is it looks like they have been sitting out for some time? If you intend to buy and use either one I would get it hooked up to a tractor first, pull it out and run them. There could be wobble box issues or rusted out pans? Belts/chains need replacing etc. If you are cutting much hay I would be looking for something like a 488 or 479 that has been shed kept. Sometimes better to spend a little more initially?

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

If you want to use the 477 you'll probably have to remove the crusher rolls. Once the rubber comes off they will not feed hay effectively, and replacing the rubber is not cost effective. $1000's of dollars on rolls for a $350 mower... You'd have to be seriously in love with the machine to spend that kind of money.

One thing I frequently see on old haybines at auctions is the pan behind the sickle worn thin and rusted through. Something else to look for.

 

[rrlund]

You'll be lucky to make one round with all that rubber missing without spending an hour with a razor knife cutting off all the hay that wraps around it. Next stop for that machine needs to be the scrap yard.

 

[A . M. Aitkins]

So with all of your feedback I'm going to pass on 477 but I'm still interested in the 461 or the 990 which one do you guys think is the better machine?
Here are some pictures of the ih 990 he has for sale he would like $500 for it. sorry for the low quality pictures I did get a chance to look over the 990 when it wasn't covered in snow and everything looked good. the pan behind the cutter bar is not rotted out the sheet metal looks decent and the rollers look very good.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

So with all of your feedback I'm going to pass on 477 but I'm still interested in the 461 or the 990 which one do you guys think is the better machine?
Here are some pictures of the ih 990 he has for sale he would like $500 for it. sorry for the low quality pictures I did get a chance to look over the 990 when it wasn't covered in snow and everything looked good. the pan behind the cutter bar is not rotted out the sheet metal looks decent and the rollers look very good.
View attachment 103280View attachment 103283

Whichever machine appears to be in the best condition. Clearly the seller feels the 990's in the best condition of the three, and that may well be true.

 

[showcrop]

I gave $350 for a good operating 990 around thirty years ago. I moved up to a disc mower conditioner after maybe five years. Whenever anyone mentions a 990 no one has anything but good to say about them. I think that the combination of one steel and one rubber roll works very well, and the rubber roll is pretty much indestructible. I'll be that you could buy it for $350 though, simply because people generally like NH more.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

I gave $350 for a good operating 990 around thirty years ago. I moved up to a disc mower conditioner after maybe five years. Whenever anyone mentions a 990 no one has anything but good to say about them. I think that the combination of one steel and one rubber roll works very well, and the rubber roll is pretty much indestructible. I'll be that you could buy it for $350 though, simply because people generally like NH more.

Keep in mind $350 was worth a LOT more 30 years ago. $500 today would be like paying $100-$150 back then.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Screwed up as New Holland is today, they are still easier to get parts for than a 990. One of the highest wear items is the knife drive system and you better be able to get parts for it quickly.

 

[shaun wallace]

The 461 is 60 or so years old and 477 is about 50 years old

 

[showcrop]

Keep in mind $350 was worth a LOT more 30 years ago. $500 today would be like paying $100-$150 back then.

 

[showcrop]

And keep in mind that the mower is thirty years older now.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

And keep in mind that the mower is thirty years older now.

Yes, and they're paying LESS for it now at $500 than you did when you paid $350 for one 30 years ago.

 

[showcrop]

Yes, and they're paying LESS for it now at $500 than you did when you paid $350 for one 30 years ago.

One would certainly hope so!!!

 

[will-max dairy]

I just see a lot of work, and skinny cattle rummaging around.

But, if I HAD to pick...The IH 990 looks like it is the closest to making hay. The battens on the reel are all still nice and straight. It's old and rusty, but probably hasn't cut that much hay.

Until some Amish/Mennonite workshop rescues us, and starts making conditioning rolls for old NH haybines... there will be quite a few, otherwise serviceable, units being cut up for scrap, for lack of conditioning rolls. They are unrepairable, and a fatal flaw, once they go bad. That old 477 is a cryin' shame.

The New Holland parts situation is dynamic and changing every day. We run two old Hesston 1070 haybines that we got for scrap price. When I got them, 10 years back, they were considered mongrels and old NH haybines were respectable...

But... at this point, the probability of getting parts for IH, NH and even Hesston has come to even odds.

Going into the future, it may even lean towards our Hesstons, as they are made from standard parts (bearings, gearboxes and such), no wobble drive, with steel rollers that never delaminate.

One defense mechanism I have, though... is I need to keep a healthy stock of guards and sections on hand, as they are harder to get than NH.

If you ever consider a Hesston... the one common weakness that I've noticed is the reel drive. We keep a 10' length of #40 roller chain and a master link in the shop at all times...

I'm not sure what the guard and section situation is for an IH haybine.

Overall, you asked "which one," and I answered... but we're currently running haybines with an eye toward scrapping them in a few years, not buying in to the technology... again, unless some Amish/Mennonite shop changes that situation.

The main thing that holds me back from going to disc mowers is... there is no seven foot disc mower/conditioner. I would have to jump up to nine feet... which doesn't work well in the small fields and gates that we go through... and would require larger tractors than we run.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

I just see a lot of work, and skinny cattle rummaging around.

But, if I HAD to pick...The IH 990 looks like it is the closest to making hay. The battens on the reel are all still nice and straight. It's old and rusty, but probably hasn't cut that much hay.

Until some Amish/Mennonite workshop rescues us, and starts making conditioning rolls for old NH haybines... there will be quite a few, otherwise serviceable, units being cut up for scrap, for lack of conditioning rolls. They are unrepairable, and a fatal flaw, once they go bad. That old 477 is a cryin' shame.

The New Holland parts situation is dynamic and changing every day. We run two old Hesston 1070 haybines that we got for scrap price. When I got them, 10 years back, they were considered mongrels and old NH haybines were respectable...

But... at this point, the probability of getting parts for IH, NH and even Hesston has come to even odds.

Going into the future, it may even lean towards our Hesstons, as they are made from standard parts (bearings, gearboxes and such), no wobble drive, with steel rollers that never delaminate.

One defense mechanism I have, though... is I need to keep a healthy stock of guards and sections on hand, as they are harder to get than NH.

If you ever consider a Hesston... the one common weakness that I've noticed is the reel drive. We keep a 10' length of #40 roller chain and a master link in the shop at all times...

I'm not sure what the guard and section situation is for an IH haybine.

Overall, you asked "which one," and I answered... but we're currently running haybines with an eye toward scrapping them in a few years, not buying in to the technology... again, unless some Amish/Mennonite shop changes that situation.

The main thing that holds me back from going to disc mowers is... there is no seven foot disc mower/conditioner. I would have to jump up to nine feet... which doesn't work well in the small fields and gates that we go through... and would require larger tractors than we run.

New conditioner rolls can be bought for the old machines. There are companies out there that recondition old rolls, and build new ones to your spec. It's just not worth it to spend thousands on a set of rolls for a $350 machine.

Dad tried that route when the nylon rolls on the Gehl 2350 disc mower conditioner shelled out. They're supposed to be replaceable, but no parts available anymore. Priced out having rubber rolls built for it by an outfit in the Finger Lakes region, and about choked when they gave him the number.

Amish might be able to build them a little cheaper, but not THAT much cheaper to be able to justify putting new rolls on an old junk haybine.

 

[will-max dairy]

Odd possibility is... do the conditioning rolls from a 461 fit in a 477? Do they both use the same wobble drive? If they did. The rolls in that 461 are pristine. You could buy the two machines and make one good one; while having some parts around.

 

[will-max dairy]

New conditioner rolls can be bought for the old machines. There are companies out there that recondition old rolls, and build new ones to your spec. It's just not worth it to spend thousands on a set of rolls for a $350 machine.

Dad tried that route when the nylon rolls on the Gehl 2350 disc mower conditioner shelled out. They're supposed to be replaceable, but no parts available anymore. Priced out having rubber rolls built for it by an outfit in the Finger Lakes region, and about choked when they gave him the number.

Amish might be able to build them a little cheaper, but not THAT much cheaper to be able to justify putting new rolls on an old junk haybine.

I smell what you're stepping in.

To my thinking, the way to make it even remotely economical would be if they picked a certain design to essentially copy new, and built a lot of the conditioning rolls. Somewhat like they've done with a couple of old conditioner designs.

I bet the price quoted to your father for a one-off fabrication of a pair of rolls WAS astronomical.

 

[rrlund]

New conditioner rolls can be bought for the old machines. There are companies out there that recondition old rolls, and build new ones to your spec. It's just not worth it to spend thousands on a set of rolls for a $350 machine.

Dad tried that route when the nylon rolls on the Gehl 2350 disc mower conditioner shelled out. They're supposed to be replaceable, but no parts available anymore. Priced out having rubber rolls built for it by an outfit in the Finger Lakes region, and about choked when they gave him the number.

Amish might be able to build them a little cheaper, but not THAT much cheaper to be able to justify putting new rolls on an old junk haybine.

I hope nobody ever buys a mower conditioner on the dream that they're going to buy new rolls for it. I bought a Vicon disc mower conditioner ten years or so ago and the rolls went to pieces the first time I used it. There was a place in Minnesota advertising new ones. I called them. They told me I'd have to get my old ones to Minnesota so they could reverse engineer them. They estimated it would cost around ten grand. No thanks. I bought a new roll for a Hesston from the dealer back in about 93. That one was a thousand dollars at that time, but you can bet your bottom dollar that now they're about the price that a whole new machine was back then.

Plain and simple, if you're going to buy an old machine like that, it'd better be field ready. If you have to visit the part counter for anything, you would have been way better off to keep shopping for a better machine. "Doing the work yourself to save money" doesn't work on these old things. The parts will kill you.