NH Hydraulic Transmission Oil Premium = 134d?

[RustyShackleford]

Sorry to bring up this topic.... I need to change the transmission/hydraulic/rear axle oil on a Ford 850. Last time I did this the oil I bought was 134d spec from a NH dealer. That dealer is long gone and the dealer I went to this time only carries New Holland Hydraulic Transmission Oil Premium (5 gal item 73344274). He said it meets the 134d spec, but the bucket label only says "MAT Spec Approved", nothing about 134d spec. It was $88 per 5 gallon bucket and I felt a little bit violated at that price. Now I'm having second thoughts - is this stuff really the correct spec for my 850? Maybe I should return it and search further for real 134d spec oil or just get the Tractor Supply Traveller Premium oil which says "recommended for" M2C134 on the label and is only $35?

 

[sotxbill]

your tractor, your money...

But.. the 850 did specify a m4864a which is a mild ep 80w fluid, and did not spec or require 134fluids. SO...You could by the tsc TS40402 oil that would be very near the original fluid. OR>>>>You could get the much cheaper 134d fluid. As tsc runs the j20a(m2c134d) fluids on sale for $26.99 5 gallons twice a year, its pretty much cheaper than the lower spec'ed fluids for the 8n through 850 series. I would NOT pay more for the 134G ambra or synthetic blends on this tractor.

 

[RodinNS]

As bill said, the tractor predates the oil
spec by a good bit and used various oils
when it was new.
I haven't bought NH branded oil in 15
years. There's any number of products out
there that meet the 134d spec which is
adequate for your tractor. I use any number
available locally here from Total, Wal-Mart
or Canadian tire etc.

Rod

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

First, CNH no longer makes/supplies the MC134D oil. They make a synthetic oil geared for the newer Boomer models. It's part of the overall plan to phase out all the stuff related to the early Ford Tractors. If you do find a CNH dealer, they MAY still have some NOS jugs of the 134D on their shelves. You can use a UTF oil just fine.

M4864A/B was mild EP gear oil in SAE grades 80 and 90. The universal tractor fluid is a SAE 80 API GL4 gear oil well suited for common sump tractor hydraulic systems, transmissions, and final drives. The TSC Traveller Ford tractor oil is a SAE 90 API GL1 oil and poorly suited for use in tractor hydraulic systems and final drives. It has no EP additives and is about the poorest choice available. If you want a grade 90 oil use just about any SAE 80W90 gear oil. It has better viscosity and wear properties than any GL1 oil.

 

[showcrop]

Rusty, first what was the condition of the drain oil? Did you get any water out before the oil? The old oil would not absorb water so it would stay on the bottom, while the newer oil will absorb it. The modern trans hydraulic oils can absorb only 1% moisture before turning milky, and condensation can add much more than 1%. Your 850 has no clutch packs so it doesn't need anything better than cheap plain hydraulic oil.

 

[Sean in PA]

(quoted from post at 08:10:51 06/10/21)

Rusty, first what was the condition of the drain oil? Did you get any water out before the oil? The old oil would not absorb water so it would stay on the bottom, while the newer oil will absorb it. The modern trans hydraulic oils can absorb only 1% moisture before turning milky, and condensation can add much more than 1%. [b:995548b13c]Your 850 has no clutch packs so it doesn't need anything better than cheap plain hydraulic oil[/b:995548b13c].

For the hydraulics sump, yes, it only needs oil rated for hydraulic system, but he asked about the trans and rear axle as well, and he should not be putting plain hydraulic oil in either of them. That is why most folks these days go with a modern UTF fluid in all 3 sumps so that there will be no concerns of cross contamination if there are any leaks between the 3 sumps. Any modern UTF fluid that is rated for hydraulics as well as having Extreme Pressure (EP) additives for use in geared transmissions and rear axles will do fine. It doesn't need to have friction modifiers for wet clutches or brakes for that tractor, but most modern UTF fluids have them and it won't hurt anything.

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 05:29:08 06/10/21)

(quoted from post at 08:10:51 06/10/21)

Rusty, first what was the condition of the drain oil? Did you get any water out before the oil? The old oil would not absorb water so it would stay on the bottom, while the newer oil will absorb it. The modern trans hydraulic oils can absorb only 1% moisture before turning milky, and condensation can add much more than 1%. [b:a4e076c6e8]Your 850 has no clutch packs so it doesn't need anything better than cheap plain hydraulic oil[/b:a4e076c6e8].

For the hydraulics sump, yes, it only needs oil rated for hydraulic system, but he asked about the trans and rear axle as well, and he should not be putting plain hydraulic oil in either of them. That is why most folks these days go with a modern UTF fluid in all 3 sumps so that there will be no concerns of cross contamination if there are any leaks between the 3 sumps. Any modern UTF fluid that is rated for hydraulics as well as having Extreme Pressure (EP) additives for use in geared transmissions and rear axles will do fine. It doesn't need to have friction modifiers for wet clutches or brakes for that tractor, but most modern UTF fluids have them and it won't hurt anything.

All that is true Sean but we all know that few of these old tractors get enough use to drive the moisture from condensation out of any of the housings, so a few months later the owners are posting as we all read about their coffee milkshake oil, due to the water and rust mixture. And how is that for their bearings???

 

[RustyShackleford]

(quoted from post at 18:50:40 06/09/21) your tractor, your money...

But.. the 850 did specify a m4864a which is a mild ep 80w fluid, and did not spec or require 134fluids. SO...You could by the tsc TS40402 oil that would be very near the original fluid. OR>>>>You could get the much cheaper 134d fluid. As tsc runs the j20a(m2c134d) fluids on sale for $26.99 5 gallons twice a year, its pretty much cheaper than the lower spec'ed fluids for the 8n through 850 series. I would NOT pay more for the 134G ambra or synthetic blends on this tractor.

Thank you all for your replies. Just a followup, I noticed on the new version of Traveller oil, 2 gallon item T806383, it actually lists the original M4864A Ford rating on the label (and also 134D). It also says SAE 10W-30, but I think that is crankcase oil rating which would be comparable to SAE 80 gear oil in actual viscosity?

 

[sotxbill]

When you say crankcase... ie the engine oil pan...

I would run a modern 15w-40 hd diesel oil like rotellat4 in your engine crankcase. If your doing a lot of snow removal, then maybe a 5w-40 like t6 for the colder temperatures will do better. you can also get the same oils in mobil, or chevron brands,, usually cheapest at wally world for the hd diesel motor oils.


BTW,, wally world still sales ford type F atf..... although tsc sells the j20 utf fluids cheaper.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Yes, it says multigrade SAE 10W-30 on the back label. This forum won't allow me to post a picture of the label, but if you go to the TSC website and search for T806383 it will come up as the "new" item along with the older version in 2 gallon. They have a picture of the back label if you zoom in on it. It says recommended for Ford M4864A, B, and M2C134D, C, B, A.
I think 30 weight crankcase oil is the same viscosity as 80W or 85W gear oil according to a chart I found online. Which would sort of make sense since the M4864A was SAE 80 gear oil. I don't know for sure? Google "Understanding the Viscosity Grade Chart" and they show a chart of various oil grades and the actual viscosities.