No spark with NEW Petronix ignition on JD 50

[chas036]

I am frustrated!!!! I installed a NEW Petronix negative ground electronic ignition on my JD 50 and no matter what I do, I can not get a spark. I have this on 4 other JD's (A, B, 620, 730) and never had a problem with installing them,.

I took off the ballist resister on the 50 and bought a brand new 12 v Petronix Flame Thrower coil with internal resister.
I hooked up the red wire to positive terminal on the coil along with wire from ignition switch. Verified I am getting 12 volts
Black wire is hooked to negative terminal of my coil.
Have brand new distributor cap and rotor
Took coil wire from my B with Petronix ignition, and I took spark plug wires from my A with Petronix. I did this because those tractors run good, so I know the spark plug and coil wires are in good working condition.
I grounded the plug to bare metal and turned on ignition, run starter motor,,,,,, and NO SPARK NOTHING, put different plug and still no spark.

I am at a complete loss, I have installed these before and never had a problem. I ordered this Petronix from Yesterday;s Tractors and I checked if they sent me the correct one for my delco distributor 111558 negative ground and I received Petronix Kit 1121 which is the correct kit according to their ad.

I think I am going back to points. Now that I have a coil with internal resistor, can i eliminate the ballast resister when I install my points?

 

[MSD]

Was your 50 converted to negative ground? Came factory as positive.

 

[used red MN]

Was your 50 converted to negative ground? Came factory as positive.

Yes, he converted it, see linked YT Thread. Previous post
I wonder if he ever had it running with points? I know it wouldn’t cause it to not have spark now. Always best to add EI as an upgrade to a running tractor.
Chas036 Did you ever check the distributor ground with an ohm meter as suggested in one of your other threads? And I take it this is not the Pertronix unit that was smoking in one of your other threads? Did you check if there is spark out of the coil wire? You will not need a resistor with that coil. Technically, that coil doesn’t have an internal resistor, the length and size of the primary winding is calculated to provide the correct resistance.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

I’m fairly certain there’s a ground wire off that ei that needs to go to a preferably new bolt on the chassis. At least the G last winter that was the case.

 

[chas036]

Yes, he converted it, see linked YT Thread. Previous post
I wonder if he ever had it running with points? I know it wouldn’t cause it to not have spark now. Always best to add EI as an upgrade to a running tractor.
Chas036 Did you ever check the distributor ground with an ohm meter as suggested in one of your other threads? And I take it this is not the Pertronix unit that was smoking in one of your other threads? Did you check if there is spark out of the coil wire? You will not need a resistor with that coil. Technically, that coil doesn’t have an internal resistor, the length and size of the primary winding is calculated to provide the correct resistance.

The tractor was not running when I bought it.

This is a brand new Pertonix I bought from Yesterdaystractors. I did check resistance of distributor by putting black multi meter wire on negative battery terminal and the red muti meter wire on points back plate in distributor and I got a very low ohms reading.

I know I am getting voltage to the coil because when I turn on the ignition switch I get 12.47 volts. I am think of by passing the ignition switch completely and just connecting a direct wire to the coil from the battery.

How do I check the spark on the coil?

 

[chas036]

The tractor was not running when I bought it.

This is a brand new Pertonix I bought from Yesterdaystractors. I did check resistance of distributor by putting black multi meter wire on negative battery terminal and the red multi meter wire on points back plate in distributor and I got a very low ohms reading.

I know I am getting voltage to the coil because when I turn on the ignition switch I get 12.47 volts. I am thinking to by pass the ignition switch completely and just connecting a direct wire to the coil from the battery.

How do I check the spark on the coil?

 

[wore out]

I’m fairly certain there’s a ground wire off that ei that needs to go to a preferably new bolt on the chassis. At least the G last winter that was the case.

There's NO "factory" "ground wire" to chassis on a (-) ground Pertronix.

However, the breaker plate that the module mounts to must be well grounded, adding a ground from there to the engine certainly wouldn't hurt.

 

[used red MN]

The tractor was not running when I bought it.

This is a brand new Pertonix I bought from Yesterdaystractors. I did check resistance of distributor by putting black multi meter wire on negative battery terminal and the red muti meter wire on points back plate in distributor and I got a very low ohms reading.

I know I am getting voltage to the coil because when I turn on the ignition switch I get 12.47 volts. I am think of by passing the ignition switch completely and just connecting a direct wire to the coil from the battery.

How do I check the spark on the coil?

By pulling the coil wire out of the distributor cap and holding the terminal end about a 3/16” - 1/4” inch away from a metal part on the engine. Crank the engine and watch for spark jumping the gap. If you have spark there then the problem is in your cap and/or rotor. Yes I know they are new but one never knows if there may be a defect in them.

 

[Jim.ME]

By pulling the coil wire out of the distributor cap and holding the terminal end about a 3/16” - 1/4” inch away from a metal part on the engine. Crank the engine and watch for spark jumping the gap. If you have spark there then the problem is in your cap and/or rotor. Yes I know they are new but one never knows if there may be a defect in them.

Good point. There are two different two-cylinder caps and they are not interchange able even though they both fit. The plug posts are in different locations. I would recommend checking the timing to see that the rotor is pointing at # 1 cylinder when that cylinder is on the compression stroke as a starting point.

The other thing is to see if the voltage going to the coil stays above 12 volts when the engine is being cranked to start. A bad switch, high resistance in a connection or wire, or high starter draw can drop the voltage too low to produce a spark.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

That could be what it was I know it wouldn’t even pop without it installed on that particular tractor.

 

[Lee B]

I've noticed that some distributors do require a ground strap while most do not, it's a puzzlement for sure.

I had a similar situation as the OP's case. Long story short, it wouldn't work at all so I set up a test bed on a table in the house using a 5 ohm power resistor to emulate the coil. Put the Pertronix unit flat on the table, applied power, checked my several meters hooked up and placed the magnet ring in the center to spin it slowly and nothing happened yet again. Goofing around I got meter movement with the magnet horizontal. Eventually I placed the magnet upside down according to the very plain instruction sheet and gave that a turn. All sorts of meter arms start moving with gusto. Tried it the next day in the pickup truck with the magnet upside down and it's been like that ever since. Works good. It is what it is, but the directions were wrong on the placement of the magnet, 59 chevy six banger only fires with the magnet upside down so I'll just run it that way. If I remember correctly I had to do some whittling on the plastic magnet ring before it would fit the distributor shaft upside down. I ran a month with just the flamethower coil on it with the regular points back in it. Every weekend I would try the pertronix yet again with nothing to show for it other than the coil alone made a very noticeable difference right away. Any more than a week and it might leave me walking home in the dark because that one would close up the points with the engine not starting at all.

 

[wore out]

''I've noticed that some distributors do require a ground strap''

For clarity and to help folks who may find this thread in the future, please provide some documentation or photos of Pertronix installations that REQUIRE a "ground strap".

 

[olddavid]

Yes, he converted it, see linked YT Thread. Previous post
I wonder if he ever had it running with points? I know it wouldn’t cause it to not have spark now. Always best to add EI as an upgrade to a running tractor.

Good thought. Points are easier to trouble shoot and from my experience with Chrysler modules I don't think you can get an approximate timing setting with the electronic module. Of course I would add this thought. If it's running with points, why change it? My backward humble opinion.

 

[Lee B]

It was a general statement and thus it stands on it's own merit - you don't get no proof or link to same. You just keep working as a mechanic and you'll run into it yourself one day. It makes no sense that so many don't need a ground strap, but the rare one does. This oddity has nothing to do with pertronix as a side note.

The reason the points had to go is because in the modern world they don't build new points with bakelite rubbing blocks that lasts for years. Instead, all you can buy today is made with inadequate plastic rubbing blocks that will leave you walking in the dark if you don't have a head mounted light source to re-adjust the point gap properly. In those days (mid 90s) they didn't have handless flashlights and it's not handy at all to use a standard flashlight when you don't have one in the first place. The points absolutely had to go away.

 

[GChief]

In those days (mid 90s) they didn't have handless flashlights

What? I have been using them since at least the mid 80s.

 

[gmcdeadhead]

if you could try one of the other petronix units you have on one of the other tractors you have and see if it works or not , maybe you got a bad one new in the box ,

 

[Fixingfarmer]

It was a general statement and thus it stands on it's own merit - you don't get no proof or link to same. You just keep working as a mechanic and you'll run into it yourself one day. It makes no sense that so many don't need a ground strap, but the rare one does. This oddity has nothing to do with pertronix as a side note.

The reason the points had to go is because in the modern world they don't build new points with bakelite rubbing blocks that lasts for years. Instead, all you can buy today is made with inadequate plastic rubbing blocks that will leave you walking in the dark if you don't have a head mounted light source to re-adjust the point gap properly. In those days (mid 90s) they didn't have handless flashlights and it's not handy at all to use a standard flashlight when you don't have one in the first place. The points absolutely had to go away.

I was looking back through the cloud with the pictures on it last night and no luck. I did find a nice video of the g thumping away after all that work when it froze on them but no good shot of the distributor wire or that side of the tractor for that matter. If I had been a good boy (and I think I attempted to be just lost it) I would have taken a picture of that particular wire anyway then I wouldn’t have caused myself an issue. If it comes back or I get back to it I’ll take a picture.

I would almost assume it has something to do with the whole distributor body itself not grounding the plate. But it was a 3/8 eyelet had to go to the shiny bolt on the crank case cover under the starter. Hadn’t ever seen it on a 2 cylinder before.