Piston ring end gap 63 Farmall cub

[Fritz Maurer]

Probably and oversimplified question but can I do sleeves myself?
Thanks Paul

I don't know why you would want the additional expense of sleeves when you can just bore to the next oversize. I realize your intentions are to put it back together with what you have, just mentioning that boring and sleeving that engine back to standard pistons would be an insane waste of money... when a simple overbore will out-last you.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

I'm going to reply to most everyone here since I tend to make a real mess of the string when I do multiple, individual replies.
First thank you for the replies. I've had good success in the past weighing the replies and moving forward with a process. I understand that some are recommending the ideal and I'd like to proceed that way but then reality (budget, time, etc.) sets in.
I paid a very reasonable price for this tractor and my goal has been to get it to run as best as possible within a reasonable budget.
I would like to know more about sleeves per Duner Wi comment. Is that something that will work without reboring? Can I press them in myself?, approximate cost? Barring that suggestion or anything new I will probably proceed to install my new pistons and rings. If there is anything else I should be doing while I complete, please let me know and thanks again! Paul

Your cylinders have a taper to them. Sleeves will NOT work without having the cylinders bored.

Sleeves are a last resort, only to be used once the cylinders have been bored as many times as they can be bored. There is no need to sleeve your engine now. It simply needs the cylinders bored to .020 oversize if you want it "perfect."

Cost will probably be between $2000 and $3000 all in, parts and labor. I know a few years ago people were spending $2000 or so at the machine shop on a Cub engine. That's assuming you can even find a machine shop to do the work anymore. Most machine shop owners have gotten old and retired. There just isn't the demand for old school engine machine work like there once was.

If you send the engine to the machine shop, all the parts you've bought will be useless because they will no longer fit.

 

[Janicholson]

The use of sleeves is to repair an engine that has been worn so much, or bored bigger so much that bigger pistons are no longer available. At that point, the cylinders are enlarged dramatically. This is much larger diameter than the biggest piston. Repair sleeves are then pressed into the block to replace the original factory bore. It is often done on engines that are low production, or damaged on one cylinder, or special in some way that would make the expense worth it. Yours will be fine with some taper. Run it with the new pistons and be happy. it may use a bit of oil, but not thousands of dollars worth!!!! Jim

 

[Paul 300 U]

The use of sleeves is to repair an engine that has been worn so much, or bored bigger so much that bigger pistons are no longer available. At that point, the cylinders are enlarged dramatically. This is much larger diameter than the biggest piston. Repair sleeves are then pressed into the block to replace the original factory bore. It is often done on engines that are low production, or damaged on one cylinder, or special in some way that would make the expense worth it. Yours will be fine with some taper. Run it with the new pistons and be happy. it may use a bit of oil, but not thousands of dollars worth!!!! Jim

Will do!! Thanks Jim
Paul

 

[300guy]

Just be sure you have a really good cross hatch pattern after honing the cylinders. And be sure to clean the cylinder;s really GOOD to remove all the honing material left in the very small hone grooves before installing the piston and rings!!! That stuff will tear a set of rings up in very short time!!

 

[rustred]

Your 45 degree cross hatch is accomplished with your up and down strokes. Keep them at a constant speed and with good pressure on the stones with fast rpm and strokes. The recommended cleaning is to use a white rag. When the rag stays white the cylinders are clean. Then a final oiling , same with the rings once installed. A good oiling before putting the ring compressor on. Then u use your 2lb ball been hammer handle to push them in , and if the rings are not compressed enough you will feel the piston stop. Do not tap it or u can break a ring. Pull the piston out and retighten the compressor. Plus make sure your rings are properly staggered and wrist pin well lubed also. And also check your Rod clearances with plastiguage. That’s a for sure thing to do. Torque to spec using plastiguage and remove and check the clearance. Ideal is .001 - .002. Plus u will feel your side clearance also by sliding the rod sideways each way. And don’t forget to check the upper rod bushings for wear. Any wiggle means they are worn. This is more machine shop work.

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

I don't know why you would want the additional expense of sleeves when you can just bore to the next oversize. I realize your intentions are to put it back together with what you have, just mentioning that boring and sleeving that engine back to standard pistons would be an insane waste of money... when a simple overbore will out-last you.

How much metal is around those cylinders? I'm under the impression that there isn't much to begin with. At least with the early blocks. Not sure if that changed as time went on & they got a little more HP.

Mike

 

[Paul 300 U]

Thanks Rust red. I'm a bit concerned with honing again. The cylinders have seen about 1 minute, 20 seconds honing so far and I've got too much ring gap now. On the plus side I did not increase the tension on the hone at all. Should I go ahead and increase tension to get the cross hatch? If so what's an approximate guess to increase tension? About about 20 percent of available thread length? 40 percent? I know it's just a guess but I'm looking for a starting point.
Also, I've never used plasti gauge. I'll have to do some research but I appreciate any input.

Thanks Paul

 

[Paul 300 U]

Just be sure you have a really good cross hatch pattern after honing the cylinders. And be sure to clean the cylinder;s really GOOD to remove all the honing material left in the very small hone grooves before installing the piston and rings!!! That stuff will tear a set of rings up in very short time!!

300 guy. Thank you for the reply. Please see my comments to rust red about honing again and please let me know your thoughts. Thanks again! Paul

 

[rustred]

Tighten the spring down so the stonesnput pressure on the walls. I would go 10-12 up and down strokes. Don’t take much to get a cross hatch. That’s all it takes. Homing for a minute that’s long time. I would say 10 seconds on each cylinder is lots. That cross hatch is what holds the oil on the cylinders for lube. Hard to explain without doing an actual demonstration. Keep your speed constant along with the up and down strokes. Don’t sit in one spot and hone or you will have no crosshatch . Just come up and out while rotating. But watch your stones also so u don’t break them. I time it so I let go of the power trigger same time the stones come out.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I wouldn't hone it anymore at all, based on the pictures from your other post. At least not until you see what your piston clearance is with your new pistons. You're running on the edge as it is. At this point , pretty cross-hatch is not going to make the difference whether this engine lives or dies. No point in getting all worked up about it.

 

[used red MN]

I wouldn't hone it anymore at all, based on the pictures from your other post. At least not until you see what your piston clearance is with your new pistons. You're running on the edge as it is. At this point , pretty cross-hatch is not going to make the difference whether this engine lives or dies. No point in getting all worked up about it.

Some on here aren’t going to like this but I agree with Fritz. The 45 degree cross hatch is “ideal” but whether you have that “pretty job” or not is not going to make or break this ring job. The main thing is to at least have some angle to the honing “scratches” which is essentially what they are. When the hone is run in the cylinder without any stroking motion and the scratches lay parallel to the rings you get a sort of “filing” action on the ring face during the break in period, this is best avoided.