Questions about what is considered Non CDL transport

[FrankxR]

I recently acquired a 10K lb Bobcat, trailer and truck to pull it all. I am in Michigan. Before I acquired these I talked to state police and they told me I did not need a CDL for self hauling and If do not make money. I may like to make money with my Bobcat, The question is can I self transport and make money with the Bobcat at a destination without a CDL OR does the term "not make money" apply to the bobcat at the final destination as well? I am under impression that "not make money" applies to the hauling only not the activity at the destination. Is that the proper interpretation?

 

[Scott 730]

.

 

[CraigWis]

I thought that you only needed a CDL if you are drove a Truck with Air Brakes

 

[Jim.ME]

I recently acquired a 10K lb Bobcat, trailer and truck to pull it all. I am in Michigan. Before I acquired these I talked to state police and they told me I did not need a CDL for self hauling and If do not make money. I may like to make money with my Bobcat, The question is can I self transport and make money with the Bobcat at a destination without a CDL OR does the term "not make money" apply to the bobcat at the final destination as well? I am under impression that "not make money" applies to the hauling only not the activity at the destination. Is that the proper interpretation?

You would be best served by getting that answer from the people who told you no CDL for self hauling, if you were not doing it to make money. Something as simple as winning a prize purse can change things from self use to commercial in some jurisdictions. You certainly can't haul something you don't own for someone and get paid to do it. Hauling your machine to do hired work, could easily be seen as you are making money by hauling your machine.

 

[caterpillar guy]

IF the whole combination is less than 26001 or the trailer is less than 10,000 then you should be under the CDL issue. This would be for GVW figures meaning the tags on the frame of the trailer telling you what the weight limit of the trailer and truck are. Now MI for farmers got rid of the name on the door deal for pickups with trailers. John In LA will probably be along with better information and excerpts out of the motor carrier hand book for this. As for talking to a cop or state police in MI you ask 10 of them the same question and you will get 10 different answers .I've been there with them and live in MI Mi cops are the worst to deal with from all the places I've been in the country and IA is next. Probably some of the most polite and nicest cops I've met were in OH. If you get to the CDL realm you will then need a medical card Commercial insurance and if you haul inside the state of MI intrastate authority. This is if you want to be legal along with commercial plates,DOT number and MPSC number and all need to be on the door of the truck. I would say for $45.00 the best money you can spend for this venture in the way of information and keeping loegal would be to contact these people Owner Operators Independent Drivers Association or OOIDA. They do this stuff for a job dna they will keep you legal on this and work with owners and drivers all over the country. I've been a member for probably close to 30 years now. They have several departments with the ability to do Authority filings and plated and MS150's plus your 2290 all things you will get into for a commercial endeavor. I was a motor carrier for 15 years on my own and consulted them many times over the years. At least call them rather than listen to a bunch of self important cops and people with off the cuff information that may be right and wrong. 800 444 5791. They will talk to you on a limited ability till you sign up with them. Good folks. They did my filings for ICC authority back when and you can ask them about that if you want. Cheapest place I found. At the time I already had my Plates insurance and IFTA sticker so just needed authority for inter and intra state. one is for working in the State which is what you want to do and inter is for working in the whole country and needed for even going into OH or IN or WI. All depending on where you live near. They will also do legal issues for you. Look at their information. The only thing I'm involved with them on is I have been a member for a long time and used their services over the years. I don't get anything for telling you about them or their services. Much better than the ATA which is a sell out for any of the small guys like you and i would be.

 

[DoubleO7]

As for talking to a cop or state police in MI you ask 10 of them the same question and you will get 10 different answers

That's a fact Jack!

And that applies to all law questions you might ask them.

Although the usual cover-their-behind answer will be "no you can't do that".

 

[Jim.ME]

A 10K bobcat should be on a trailer rated over 10K, at least 12K, if not 14K. If the trailer is rated 10K it is at the non-CDL limit, trailer size wise.

You posted "I am under impression that "not make money" applies to the hauling only not the activity at the destination. Is that the proper interpretation?" From the Michigan Center for Truck Safety guidebook, an exemption from the CDL requirement contains the words "State and Federal trucking regulations do not apply to any person operating a commercial motor vehicle when the vehicle is used exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members for non-business purposes."

The wording "non-business purposes" indicates to me that you would need a CDL to transport your Bobcat to/from a job, which you would get paid to do, if your truck/trailer combination meets CDL requirements. I interpret that as the key is not that you own the equipment, but the reason for which you are transporting it. YMMV

MCTS-21st edition guidebook

 

[E.B. Haymakin']

I recently acquired a 10K lb Bobcat, trailer and truck to pull it all. I am in Michigan. Before I acquired these I talked to state police and they told me I did not need a CDL for self hauling and If do not make money. I may like to make money with my Bobcat, The question is can I self transport and make money with the Bobcat at a destination without a CDL OR does the term "not make money" apply to the bobcat at the final destination as well? I am under impression that "not make money" applies to the hauling only not the activity at the destination. Is that the proper interpretation?

In some states you may get away with just loading and going to work forever, or you get stopped by a Leo inclined to inquire & enforce DOT regulations and you get ticketed big-time. My understanding of driving laws are driving is a privilege, not a right,so DOT regs enforcement is gonna happen, no constitutional protections there....Next worst case scenario is you have a accident....lawyermageddon. In Alabama you may get away with it forever in northern states likely not, I'd follow caterpillar guys advice. Too much liability, that's why I'd work in a rat costume @ pizza place before considering self employed transportation related business. Wish you well though...

 

[showcrop]

The only place worse than a cop for getting DOT information is YT.

 

[john in la]

A for hire trucking company is one that hauls someone else’s product. This requires a DOT number and a ICC number.
Think Swift trucking.

A company that owns everything on the trailer is called a private carrier. This requires a DOT number.
Think WalMart.

Both require a CDL.
So yes making money with your bobcat at the destination puts you into CDL rules. You will also need a DOT number for the truck.

Many think a 10,000 lb trailer automatically puts you into CDL. That is wrong.

First question.
Is the truck and trailer rated for over 26,000 lbs.
if yes you need a CDL.
Second question.
Is the trailer rated for 10,000 lbs or more.
If yes then you need a class A CDL.

 

[wp6529]

It's really a wonder that anything gets hauled around with the convoluted and often questionable regulations.

Explained to the wife that our 14k F350 dually pulling our 24k 32' gooseneck flatbed is a CDL load, somewhat understandable. What's pathetic though is that the 14k F350 pulling the little 14k 16' dump trailer would also technically be a class A.

 

[DoubleO7]

What's pathetic though is that the 14k F350 pulling the little 14k 16' dump trailer would also technically be a class A.

But the same truck hauling a 45 foot fifth wheel tri axle camper,.....no CDL needed

 

[Destroked 450]

I have a CDL
I have a farm in Ky and most of our trucks have Ky farm tags
I attended a Ky DOT class pertaining to Ky farm tags and CDL requirements
This is the definition they gave pertaining to CDL’s
CDL is Commercial Drivers License with emphasis on commercial, which means your using a vehicle to make money, if that vehicle is over a certain weight rating a CDL is required to drive or tow said vehicle
“In Ky” if you haul a product for family member, friend or Joe Blow that’s stranded on the side of the road, and that person pays you, buys your fuel or even buys you food or drink you have benefited and this are commercial, thus you need a CDL
If you use your truck and or trailer to haul your equipment to a job site and back but don’t include a delivery charge for the work done. CDL is not required and that hauling can be done with a farm licensed vehicle, because no money was made with that vehicle
This is for Ky and farm tags, each state has their own exemptions and requirements that can be stricter than federal requirements but can not circumvent federal requirements

Check with your state at the state level and maybe you will get the info you need

 

[E.B. Haymakin']

I recently acquired a 10K lb Bobcat, trailer and truck to pull it all. I am in Michigan. Before I acquired these I talked to state police and they told me I did not need a CDL for self hauling and If do not make money. I may like to make money with my Bobcat, The question is can I self transport and make money with the Bobcat at a destination without a CDL OR does the term "not make money" apply to the bobcat at the final destination as well? I am under impression that "not make money" applies to the hauling only not the activity at the destination. Is that the proper interpretation?

But if you buy a agricultural farm tractor and pull the trailer with that they can't say anything to you. Unless it's New York

 

[E.B. Haymakin']

The only place worse than a cop for getting DOT information is YT.

The advice one receives from this chat forum group of gurus may or may not be any better than the advice received from some other chat forum group of gurus.,

 

[john in la]

I have a CDL
I have a farm in Ky and most of our trucks have Ky farm tags
I attended a Ky DOT class pertaining to Ky farm tags and CDL requirements
This is the definition they gave pertaining to CDL’s
CDL is Commercial Drivers License with emphasis on commercial, which means your using a vehicle to make money, if that vehicle is over a certain weight rating a CDL is required to drive or tow said vehicle
“In Ky” if you haul a product for family member, friend or Joe Blow that’s stranded on the side of the road, and that person pays you, buys your fuel or even buys you food or drink you have benefited and this are commercial, thus you need a CDL
If you use your truck and or trailer to haul your equipment to a job site and back but don’t include a delivery charge for the work done. CDL is not required and that hauling can be done with a farm licensed vehicle, because no money was made with that vehicle
This is for Ky and farm tags, each state has their own exemptions and requirements that can be stricter than federal requirements but can not circumvent federal requirements

Check with your state at the state level and maybe you will get the info you need

It is my interpretation of the farm exemption that a farm vehicle can not be used for other business activities.
In other words the farm truck can be used to haul a tractor to the dealer for service because the tractor is used on the farm.
But a farm truck can not be used to haul a tractor to the job site of a different business.
Hauling a tractor to a job site of a different business in no way helps the farm. It is strictly helping the other business.

With a farm exemption you are not even allowed to haul a tractor owned by your neighbor to your neighbors job site as a favor because him truck is broken down. It didn’t help your farm in anyway so the farm exemption doesn’t apply.

 

[john in la]

The only place worse than a cop for getting DOT information is YT.

The problem with getting DOT advice on a chat forum is many repeat what Billy bob told them at the local bar. That and many try to read between the lines looking for a reason the laws don’t apply to them.
I have quoted word for word and even provided links to the laws and still had people say that law doesn’t apply to me.

 

[caterpillar guy]

And these are the reasons I said to talk to OOIDA they live this situation everyday. They also can give accurate information better than any of us can explain it. In MI they did do away with the DOT number for farm vehicles. With the blow back they got about it when we had a more farm friendly legislative state government. After the cops supposedly wrote tickets to a bunch at an auction one day. While setting in the yard .

 

[E.B. Haymakin']

I recently acquired a 10K lb Bobcat, trailer and truck to pull it all. I am in Michigan. Before I acquired these I talked to state police and they told me I did not need a CDL for self hauling and If do not make money. I may like to make money with my Bobcat, The question is can I self transport and make money with the Bobcat at a destination without a CDL OR does the term "not make money" apply to the bobcat at the final destination as well? I am under impression that "not make money" applies to the hauling only not the activity at the destination. Is that the proper interpretation?

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[E.B. Haymakin']

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What DOT? With folks like this I guess there has to be rules