Rock Picker Case 444 hydraulics

[JK99]

I have a 1974 Case 444 that has the hydraulic valve and hose connections for tiller (I think) on it. I do not have a tiller though and have never used this connection or valves. This Case also has a front blade, which is what I've mainly used it for and hauling a lightweight horse manure cart to the compost pile.

I'd really like to use this garden tractor to pull a light weight (DuraGrade, so ~36 inch wide weighing about 500 lbs---so ATV sized) rock picker, but to do that I need to connect the hydraulic cylinder on the rock picker to the hydraulics on the CASE so the forks can be raised or lowered. This is a 1/4 inch hydraulic line with about 2 foot of cylinder travel give or take a few inches.

Are the tiller hydraulics 2 way (with up and down pressure---ie a tiller can run forwards or backwards)? If this is the case, I can raise and lower the rock picker forks. If not, do I need to add a 2 way spool valve to the connection from the tiller valve or am I way off base in thinking this is even possible? I have not been able to answer that question with any information I've been able to find.

Thank you.

 

[kencombs]

The tiller lines are in series with the drive motor. .Full pump output. Not to be used for that sort of purpose. But, the lift lines, for the belly lift and front blade can be used. Tee into them and use a selector valve to route the hydraulics to one or the other. I'd suggest you go to casecoltingersoll.com and join the group. There are diagrams available there for this exact thing, + a lot of other Case info.

 

[JK99]

The tiller lines are in series with the drive motor. .Full pump output. Not to be used for that sort of purpose. But, the lift lines, for the belly lift and front blade can be used. Tee into them and use a selector valve to route the hydraulics to one or the other. I'd suggest you go to casecoltingersoll.com and join the group. There are diagrams available there for this exact thing, + a lot of other Case info.

Thanks Ken for that explanation. A T off of the belly lift wont be that difficult, but I'll check out the website you recommended. They may have information I'm not thinking of.

 

[JK99]

I keep thinking about this.... you can run a log splitter off of a Case 444... the lift on this rock picker would basically be the same... run with bucket down, pause, lift and dump, then put bucket down and run again. It really seems plumbing in a control valve from the PTO would give the most power to the lift cylinder. I also can be careful not to drive it while lifting, its just a matter of pausing so there shouldnt be any significant drain on the drive motors beyond what would happen with a tiller or something like that. The PTO would run continuously if I get the correct bidirectional control valve with the correct relief.

 

[kencombs]

I keep thinking about this.... you can run a log splitter off of a Case 444... the lift on this rock picker would basically be the same... run with bucket down, pause, lift and dump, then put bucket down and run again. It really seems plumbing in a control valve from the PTO would give the most power to the lift cylinder. I also can be careful not to drive it while lifting, its just a matter of pausing so there shouldnt be any significant drain on the drive motors beyond what would happen with a tiller or something like that. The PTO would run continuously if I get the correct bidirectional control valve with the correct relief.

The flow to a pto is continous, not stop and start. pump to PTO, PTO to travel valve to return. No start and stop ever. Blocking the flow will damage the pump. I've seen more than one ruined when the in to out loop on the pto is disconnected by mistake.

 

[JK99]

The flow to a pto is continous, not stop and start. pump to PTO, PTO to travel valve to return. No start and stop ever. Blocking the flow will damage the pump. I've seen more than one ruined when the in to out loop on the pto is disconnected by mistake.

Then how does the log splitter work?

Ken you are missing a step in this with what you are saying... I'm saying PTO hydraulics to cylinder control valve with pressure release back to PTO---so the PTO is always on. The action of the cylinder comes from the second control valve. This is basically how a log splitter works. That is what I'm looking for.

What you are saying is that a log splitter could never be used with a 444, yet they are not that uncommon from what I gather, this includes plumbing in a regular tractor 3 point log splitter to a 444 and use it without a problem.

 

[kencombs]

Then how does the log splitter work?

Ken you are missing a step in this with what you are saying... I'm saying PTO hydraulics to cylinder control valve with pressure release back to PTO---so the PTO is always on. The action of the cylinder comes from the second control valve. This is basically how a log splitter works. That is what I'm looking for.

What you are saying is that a log splitter could never be used with a 444, yet they are not that uncommon from what I gather, this includes plumbing in a regular tractor 3 point log splitter to a 444 and use it without a problem.

A log splitter valve will never dead end the pump output. It has it's own relief and kickback. And, just imagine how fast a little lift cylinder would operate when it received the full 6-8GPM from the pump.

 

[JK99]

A log splitter valve will never dead end the pump output. It has it's own relief and kickback. And, just imagine how fast a little lift cylinder would operate when it received the full 6-8GPM from the pump.

I am thinking of lift speed with the lift cylinder operating the bucket on the rock picker. It wont throw rocks but it'll move a little faster than the electric unit on it right now---- I have to go look at the electric pump again, so I have specifics correct, but i'm remembering its in the ~4 gpm range... again I have to double check that I may be wrong. I also am thinking that it can be done without dead ending the pump as long as there is proper relief.

I keep going back to the log splitters i've seen for a Case 444 and 446 and thinking, thats a similar sized cylinder (close, its not exact) and some of the jury rigged ones are bigger. The relief valve is key, unless I'm missing something.

 

[JK99]

Ken thanks for your replies to this. I am trying to think this through to come up with a plan that works and wont hurt my 444.... So I'm turning this over from every direction so I understand it before I try to do anything that I'll regret. I appreciate your thoughts.