Service line drop & power pole replacement

[Tony in SD]

It's a farm thing when the meter pole also feeds lines to various outbuildings. Common around here.

x2
I have multiple meters and none of them are at or on the buildings in the rural area

 

[Tony in SD]

Not exactly sure what you are asking "Can anyone look at the Transformer and tell me what kind of service it is?" But my answer would be. it is a 25 kva single phase service.

You need a ground at most all places you can touch metal grounded equipment. But the code has changed over the years and what you have was probably to code at one time. Now that you are upgrading your service you need to bring it up to the current code.

 

[kencombs]

It's a farm thing when the meter pole also feeds lines to various outbuildings. Common around here.

Here (OK) to with rural, not only 'real' farms, but just rural properties in general. I've owned three separate properties that were like that. One provided by the city, even though it was outside city limits, and two provided by a rural co-op. Pole with meter and panel below with main disconnect and connections for 4 drops.

 

[bc]

Not exactly sure what you are asking "Can anyone look at the Transformer and tell me what kind of service it is?" But my answer would be. it is a 25 kva single phase service.

You need a ground at most all places you can touch metal grounded equipment. But the code has changed over the years and what you have was probably to code at one time. Now that you are upgrading your service you need to bring it up to the current code.

Whether delta or wye, etc. It's single phase so maybe you can't tell.

 

[farmersamm]

Got some pics yesterday. Transformer pole by the property line. Power pole at the line going to the meter pole with lines going to the house and another going to the pole that feeds the garage and barn. Also a pic of the meter and disconnect. The meter pole has a light on top.

Can anyone look at the Transformer and tell me what kind of service it is?

Also, I see the meter has a ground but the disconnect does not. Is the meter ground the only bond needed for the whole farm? Thanks.

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Here you can tell the power company you don't want a light on the pole. I had them take it down when they replaced my pole. I don't care to pay the electricity bill on it. No need for a yard light here. I figure if someone's out there trying to steal stuff..........let them trip over something, and break a leg. I'm not gonna give them a courtesy light

 

[olddavid]

Here you can tell the power company you don't want a light on the pole. I had them take it down when they replaced my pole. I don't care to pay the electricity bill on it. No need for a yard light here. I figure if someone's out there trying to steal stuff..........let them trip over something, and break a leg. I'm not gonna give them a courtesy light

Same here. I like to look at the stars and planets with my small telescope. I don't need that light on. I think I asked about a switch on the pole and I think they said "no" and I said "no".

 

[farmersamm]

Same here. I like to look at the stars and planets with my small telescope. I don't need that light on. I think I asked about a switch on the pole and I think they said "no" and I said "no".

You know.......I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT. I bought K'kins a telescope a few years back, and she still likes to take it out once in a while. It WOULD be a PITA with a yard light!!

 

[bc]

Here you can tell the power company you don't want a light on the pole. I had them take it down when they replaced my pole. I don't care to pay the electricity bill on it. No need for a yard light here. I figure if someone's out there trying to steal stuff..........let them trip over something, and break a leg. I'm not gonna give them a courtesy light

It was a light that was grandfathered in years ago at a static charge before the meter at 4.75 a month for a halogen light. Price has gone up now. Probably should cancel and put up a switchable led light.

 

[Frankinfl]

Meter nameplate tells you the service is 200 amp single phase service. That is the most used meter for residential services.

 

[John T]

At the times and in the jurisdictions I practiced we used compression fittings never split bolts but it may be different in other places or times

Also at aerial services where service transformers were used the incoming hv neutral as well as the lv neutral we’re connected to a grounding electrode conductor that led down the pole to a grounding electrode such as a rod driven into Mother Earth

Neutrals were bonded at the first means of disconnect typically the main panel with no other bonding after that

John T. Retired BSEE codes chenge so no warranty see what other electricians and engineers have to say there are several here yayyyy

 

[Geo-TH,In]

It's a farm thing when the meter pole also feeds lines to various outbuildings. Common around here.

Bc
I bet the IRS wouldn't like you using your personal house electric bill as a business expense off your taxes.

 

[John T]

What's the alternative? We've had problems several times over the years. Always used the split bolt "bugs" on the aluminum wires. Every once in a while one burns out.

For sure either method can work . At several facilities where l practiced with diffetent utility providers we always used compression and I don’t recall any repairs. Of course this is one’s own choice which is fine and different locations may use different methods so to each their own is the way to go

Nice chatting with you best wishes

John T.

 

[John T]

Most utilities use a compatible crimp splice. The problem is with a split bolt there, it needs to be retorqued annually with aluminum, assuming the split bolt material is compatible with the aluminum. Not as bad on the ground neutral, but still.

Also, the bonding of the ground and neutral is supposed to be at the service switch. Looks like a good photo for EC&M's "what's wrong here.

At the time and in all the jurisdictions where i practiced we bonded at the first means of disconnect. Of course codes chenge and different places do it different so no warranty consult the nec and professionals on your area if in doubt

Nice chatting with you best wishes

John T

 

[John T]

Not exactly sure what you are asking "Can anyone look at the Transformer and tell me what kind of service it is?" But my answer would be. it is a 25 kva single phase service.

You need a ground at most all places you can touch metal grounded equipment. But the code has changed over the years and what you have was probably to code at one time. Now that you are upgrading your service you need to bring it up to the current code.

X2. Yo Tony. Not being able to see better it looks like a single phase service to me. I always used three transformers to supply 3 phase to a building myself. If the hv is single phase the x former had one hv terminal and the other was neutral grounded. If you tapped off two legs of hv to feed a transformer it had two hv terminals. At the aerial service the incoming hv neutral as well as the outgoing lv neutral we’re connected to a grounding electrode conductor down the pole to a ground rod

That’s only how it was done per code in our area it may be different other places. See if other engineers and electricians agree. No warranty

Nice chatting with you best wishes

John T

 

[John T]

Whether delta or wye, etc. It's single phase so maybe you can't tell.

If I can see it better with three transformers used I can tell by looking if it’s y or delta !!

John T

 

[Tony in SD]

X2. Yo Tony. Not being able to see better it looks like a single phase service to me. I always used three transformers to supply 3 phase to a building myself. If the hv is single phase the x former had one hv terminal and the other was neutral grounded. If you tapped off two legs of hv to feed a transformer it had two hv terminals. At the aerial service the incoming hv neutral as well as the outgoing lv neutral we’re connected to a grounding electrode conductor down the pole to a ground rod

That’s only how it was done per code in our area it may be different other places. See if other engineers and electricians agree. No warranty

Nice chatting with you best wishes

John T

John
I studied that transformer picture for some time before I could see that the transformer is on a transmission pole. The transformer is feed by a single phase distribution line that deadends at the transformer pole with a guy wire on the opposite side of the pole. Under the transformer there is a neutral that deadends on that pole too. I know it is a pretty busy picture.
Also FWIW that device that some are calling a street light is actually an RF device of some kind. Probably sends telemetry back to the power company.

 

[bc]

John
I studied that transformer picture for some time before I could see that the transformer is on a transmission pole. The transformer is feed by a single phase distribution line that deadends at the transformer pole with a guy wire on the opposite side of the pole. Under the transformer there is a neutral that deadends on that pole too. I know it is a pretty busy picture.
Also FWIW that device that some are calling a street light is actually an RF device of some kind. Probably sends telemetry back to the power company.

Tony is correct. They ran a 35k transmission line a few years ago along the highway. Ran new local poles from a substation a couple miles away. That is the radio feed to Evergy that tracks our power usage which we can see on their website and also allows Evergy to send text alerts when the power is out.

The meter pole has the light except in the pic all you see is the mounting rod extending out from the top of the pole but the actual fixture is just out of the pic.

On the meter pole the meter box has a ground running down the pole. The disconnect panel next to it does not have a ground coming from it which is inches away. Correct me if I'm wrong here but if the first disconnect is not directly grounded then the main panel at the end of the service line to the house should be grounded to ground rods and the same for the line to the garage panel?

Next chance I get i will get a pic of a nearby 3 phase transformer setup. Thanks.

 

[John T]

John
I studied that transformer picture for some time before I could see that the transformer is on a transmission pole. The transformer is feed by a single phase distribution line that deadends at the transformer pole with a guy wire on the opposite side of the pole. Under the transformer there is a neutral that deadends on that pole too. I know it is a pretty busy picture.
Also FWIW that device that some are calling a street light is actually an RF device of some kind. Probably sends telemetry back to the power company.

Wow Tony nice info you really studied the picture !!! I’m on my phone do can’t see pictures well so just posted some theory how we did it. I always used three transformers to supply three phase aerial and figured it was single phase like you did

Nice sparky chatting Tony take care

John T

 

[will-max dairy]

It's a farm thing when the meter pole also feeds lines to various outbuildings. Common around here.

x3... our meter is out by the road with a breaker panel underneath... that feeds the house and barn.

I've always put the entire electric bill under the farm expense on the schedule F.

Since the house is heated with oil, and the water heater in the house is propane. Those bills are already segregated, and they are never included on the schedule F.

Parsing out farm and non farm expenses from the remaining electric bill would be... tough... we have a shop connected to the house; where we fix farm things... we run the washer and dryer more often in the house... because of doing farm things... what's left? Lights. The oven. Etc.

When you run a farm, have a farm, and live on the farm... a fairly strong argument can be made that the house is simply a "barracks" living quarters for the farm workers.

My take on the tax angle is, I try to make it easy and fair on myself and the IRS... They give me the electric bill on schedule F... I don't itemize home office expenses, laundry expenses, other utilities for the shop attached to the house, etc.

Kind of a "spirit of the law" thing...


PS... I would read the code regarding the neutral-ground bond at "the first disconnect" very carefully with respect to building to building wiring.

I can see skipping the ground-neutral bond at subpanels within a building and just making it at the main panel within a building. Because those subpanels are accessible and become fault current paths.

This argument holds less water when talking about a campus distribution system with a "Main-Main" panel... that feeds multiple buildings with their own "Main" panels.

I'm not going to weigh in, because what I say would just be an opinion.

I'm just going to say... read the local code very carefully and think about the difference between mains and subs within a building... and a "campus" of many buildings; which is what a farm can be considered.

 

[paul]

Why would anyone not have the meter connected to the house?
I have 6 rentals and 2 houses. All meters are connected to the house.
I don't know anyone who has a meter in a remote area except for mobile homes.
In 1985 I built a total electric home. The power company trenched a 200 amp service to the house where the meter was connected.
It didn't cost me anything.

Everyone had overhead lines, a transformer on a pole, and usually the next pole was the meter pole where the power came down the pole to the meter. Typically you put your yard light on this pole as well. You tried to have the pole centered in your building site. From this pole, power sub feeds went to the house, to the barn, and to the various sheds and chicken barns and granaries and all.

My farm it’s 110 feet to the house from the meter pole west.

Another branch from the pole runs to the barn, hog barn, and corn crib about 700 feet east and curling north.

A third line runs to the chicken barn 90 feed and branches from there to the granary and small shed and well, other branch goes to the car shed and bigger machine shed. Those 2 lines run about 700 feet south Since then I’ve added power to two machine sheds from the little shed, about 500 feet to each, mostly easterly.

Of course everything was put underground in early 2000s when I upgraded from the 60 amp total service we had.

But the layout is the same.

Really never heard of a service going to a house first here in farm yards here? The major power users are either the dairy barn or the gran bin drier site, you try to get the meter closer to one of those, and branch out to the house and other buildings from there.

Paul