Since I'm Doing Idiot Squares Anyway

You'd probably make more money loading those running gears up and shipping them to Western New York. Even the junkiest seized up running gear goes for $300-400 at auctions around here. Decent ones with tires that hold air bring several hundred dollars.
Interesting point. And to be sure, prices for running gears alone seem to be steadily increasing here too. A good trick is to look for forage wagons. No one wants to deal with old rotted out forage wagons, and often times the running gear is decent. You can often get old forage wagons with rotted wood and decent running gears for peanuts. Push the box off and into the burn pile with the backhoe and set fire to it, use the running gear to build a new hay wagon, and once the fire's done take all the steel from the forage box to the scrappers (the money you get back will pretty much cover the original cost of the wagon).

Tires have never been much of an issue for me: A scrapyard up the road always has a great selection of used truck tires in good shape for $10 a piece, and I have all the tooling to swap tires around and throw new tubes in.
 
We didn’t start with rounds and build up, dad built a small bank barn in 53 after purchasing the farm in 52, it would hold about 1500-2000 squares, as more land was cleared and another farm was purchased more cows were added until the little barn wouldn’t hold enough hay, a Allis Chambers Roto-Baler was purchased to make small 15” diameter 100 lb rounds that could be left outside to feed later. We transitioned to rounds as family members grew up and moved away, readjusting storage capabilities and more efficient ways to feed as funds allowed, even with 175 rolls in my open shed we still tarp 200 rolls on a 20x140’ gravel pad outside
Squares are a more efficient way to feed with less waste but also the most labor intensive
Rounds at the most basic level can be stored and feed from a tractor seat with just a 3 point bale spear but is also when there is the most waste
At my FIL’s farm we lined up 400 4x5 rounds on a 125x100’ pad while his beautiful 42x80 hip roof barn with a loft that would hold 7000+ squares set nearly empty with less than 200 squares in it
Heart issues in his early 50’s and a back injury myself prevented both of us from putting in a full day handling small squares, as young boys willing to work in hay became fewer and fewer as decades passed, rounds became a necessity option for continued operations
We don’t have lake effect snow but mud can be a major issue nearly all winter at times
Covered fence line hay feeders help reduce waste better than hay rings plus they don’t require a loader tractor and with a good rocked driveway they keep us out of the mud
IMG_4289.jpeg

Something like this can also be incorporated into a barn

For your present operation and barn a NH 1010 bale wagon that will off load single bales at a time onto a elevator or cross conveyor would work well
 
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We didn’t start with rounds and build up, dad built a small bank barn in 53 after purchasing the farm in 52, it would hold about 1500-2000 squares, as more land was cleared and another farm was purchased more cows were added until the little barn wouldn’t hold enough hay, a Allis Chambers Roto-Baler was purchased to make small 15” diameter 100 lb rounds that could be left outside to feed later. We transitioned to rounds as family members grew up and moved away, readjusting storage capabilities and more efficient ways to feed as funds allowed, even with 175 rolls in my open shed we still tarp 200 rolls on a 20x140’ gravel pad outside
Squares are a more efficient way to feed with less waste but also the most labor intensive
Rounds at the most basic level can be stored and feed from a tractor seat with just a 3 point bale spear but is also when there is the most waste
At my FIL’s farm we lined up 400 4x5 rounds on a 125x100’ pad while his beautiful 42x80 hip roof barn with a loft that would hold 7000+ squares set nearly empty with less than 200 squares in it
Heart issues in his early 50’s and a back injury prevented both of us from putting in a full day handling small squares, as young boys willing to work in hay became fewer and fewer as decades passed, rounds became a necessity option for continued operations
We don’t have lake effect snow but mud can be a major issue nearly all winter at times
Covered fence line hay feeders help reduce waste better than hay rings plus they don’t require a loader tractor and with a good rocked driveway they keep us out of the mud
View attachment 87516
Something like this can also be incorporated into a barn

For your present operation and barn a NH 1010 bale wagon that will off load single bales at a time onto a elevator or cross conveyor would work well

You've put a lot of thought into this, with solutions to many of the critiques that I've had, when small square operations shifted over to round bales.
-Minimize waste? check
-Minimize rutting up good pasture/land putting out round bales? check
 
You've put a lot of thought into this, with solutions to many of the critiques that I've had, when small square operations shifted over to round bales.
-Minimize waste? check
-Minimize rutting up good pasture/land putting out round bales? check
I just haven’t came up with a good solution for that white elephant yet 🤔
Dads small bank barn has become a catch all storage place with a few squares in one end should we need to stall a cow or calf, excess new and used lumber storage along with extra sheet metal storage for mine and a brother’s tractor collections as well as spare tires and wheels
As for my late FIL’s big high loft it just sets there with a few squares in it and a grain header backed in the main driveway
 
Never been around a thrower but it looks like it would be a time consuming job unloading a load of thrown bales
I have the extension chute on my 273 for loading a flat wagon behind the baler
Spent much of my youth helping neighbors pick squares up off the ground
If I was younger and baled more than the couple hundred squares we make today I’d give an accumulator and grapple serious consideration
We switched to mainly round bales in the 90’s lining them in rows at first, then stacking and tarping when we got a loader for a tractor until we build a open shed hay barn in 2011
Round bales do sell for less than squares pound for pound but with less than a 1/3 of labor cost invested in rounds I end up with more cash in my pocket at the end of the year
Good to hear about the pocket money. This is my first year with rounds. So far I'm not getting rich.
 
These machines here will make you feel at least 30% smarter when you are done idiot cubing.


View attachment 87327

Mike
That thing just leaves me bewildered. My 1003 never sat out a day in its life shiny original paint, copiously lubricated.... and is pretty recalcitrant until I re-learn all of her idiosyncrasies... but then I love her....

Buddy of mine has like a 1010 size one, never indoors, an absolute rust bucket, he says, "yeah man, that thing works great!"
 
Good to hear about the pocket money. This is my first year with rounds. So far I'm not getting rich.
Get rich hay farming ? 😂🤣😂🤣
I’m rich in life and happiness here on my little piece of paradise , as long as the baler doesn’t break down 😤🤬
I make more from beef sells than from hay, but then I’ve never done the figures to see how much more hay I’d have to sell if I didn’t have cows 🤔
 
Son still uses a small square baler. No one here ever used a thrower, most use a trailer and pickup. He drops on ground and loads and unloads a with a 5 bale drive along accumulator on a Dunham-Lehr 22 loader on the IH 300 utility. Then pulls trailer with the 300. The big boys use a skid steer and a bigger accumulator. It is muddy here spring, fall and winter from all the rain. Bales are stacked in 6 barns of about 25 head each, center barn 20'x48'x12' high with a 12'x48'x8'h lean-to. Very simple and easy to build. Concrete floor in lean-to, bunk between barn and open sided lean-to takes up 2'. Siding on west wall and south end on barn. Cattle panels on lean-to, just push manure under panels and out the sloped slab to small pit, no bedding. No way you can get around with a loader to do round bales unless it is concrete. Plus he sells hay all winter. $800 tractor, $600 baler and home built single mobile home axle 6'x12' tilt bed trailer that he also hauls tractor and fertilizer on, and everything else. He has 160 mother cows on 1000 acres of white oak, hills and fenced off hay meadows. Cows bed under the trees. He feeds 1/2 grass seed straw and protein blocks right there in the bunks. Hay in the back of barn, grass seed straw in front and out under tarp until fed out first. Takes 10 minutes to hand feed and check 25 head a day. Calve under the trees in March/April. If cow and calf need to go in barn, some hay has been fed out and he sets up panels. Very simple, easy and efficient operation. No need to start tractor all winter....James.
 
That thing just leaves me bewildered. My 1003 never sat out a day in its life shiny original paint, copiously lubricated.... and is pretty recalcitrant until I re-learn all of her idiosyncrasies... but then I love her....

Buddy of mine has like a 1010 size one, never indoors, an absolute rust bucket, he says, "yeah man, that thing works great!"
Going to venture a guess & say NH may have figured that a lot of those machines would sit out at that time & they managed to tuck away most of the valves, hoses & assorted gadgets under the tables.

As an aside, my 1010 was supposed to be a rough looking project machine that I bought sight unseen at an auction. Figured it would need a lot of TLC the way it looked. It was just out of adjustment. Got the manual, tweaked everything & it works as it should. Every small issue since has just been part of the learning curve.

Mike
 
Get rich hay farming ? 😂🤣😂🤣
I’m rich in life and happiness here on my little piece of paradise , as long as the baler doesn’t break down 😤🤬
I make more from beef sells than from hay, but then I’ve never done the figures to see how much more hay I’d have to sell if I didn’t have cows 🤔
Which assumes that you COULD sell the hay.

If everybody got rid of their cows and horses... to sell hay... who would they sell hay to?

(That last line should be sung to the "How much wood could a woodchuck chuck...")

But seriously, it's been a perfect summer for making hay in our area. Everybody that I know has made record numbers of small squares AND round bales to sell... even as many people have sold off their herds...

We have more than enough hay for our own animals, and... I heeded our daughter's advice to park the baling equipment... since making hay specifically to sell would be pushing hay into a local hay glut.

It's going to be an interesting year to watch the hay market on FB marketplace.

As cattle operations consolidate bigger and bigger... it moves more animals into the feedlot system... corn, soy, grain by-products and whopper-chopper-cut bunk silage... people with 3,000 animals aren't buying as many loads of small squares OR round bales (on a per animal basis), as both are more expensive per calorie than their more industrially-produced feed options.
 
Which assumes that you COULD sell the hay.

If everybody got rid of their cows and horses... to sell hay... who would they sell hay to?

(That last line should be sung to the "How much wood could a woodchuck chuck...")

But seriously, it's been a perfect summer for making hay in our area. Everybody that I know has made record numbers of small squares AND round bales to sell... even as many people have sold off their herds...

We have more than enough hay for our own animals, and... I heeded our daughter's advice to park the baling equipment... since making hay specifically to sell would be pushing hay into a local hay glut.

It's going to be an interesting year to watch the hay market on FB marketplace.

As cattle operations consolidate bigger and bigger... it moves more animals into the feedlot system... corn, soy, grain by-products and whopper-chopper-cut bunk silage... people with 3,000 animals aren't buying as many loads of small squares OR round bales (on a per animal basis), as both are more expensive per calorie than their more industrially-produced feed options.
You've got it in spades.

Last weekend was the end of my hay season. Had my buyer all lined up to go, come Sunday he could only come and get one load out of the field and we were forecasted to get rain for the foreseeable future. We wound up baling about 2/3rds of the field, and managed to get all we baled under cover before the rain started. But the rest is currently on the ground, ruined. If I'd had another buyer lined up we might've saved it, but as it is it'll just get burned in a month or so. All that to say, it's one thing to bale a thousand bales, and quite another to sell them!

Mac
 
You've got it in spades.

Last weekend was the end of my hay season. Had my buyer all lined up to go, come Sunday he could only come and get one load out of the field and we were forecasted to get rain for the foreseeable future. We wound up baling about 2/3rds of the field, and managed to get all we baled under cover before the rain started. But the rest is currently on the ground, ruined. If I'd had another buyer lined up we might've saved it, but as it is it'll just get burned in a month or so. All that to say, it's one thing to bale a thousand bales, and quite another to sell them!

Mac
Man I hear you. How's that saying go,,,if wishes were fishes the lakes would be full,,, That being said do you have a hay auction nearby? Seems someone will always bid something for it. I would not want to burn it if it were mine. Does someone have a tedder you could use? spread it out and leave it lay.
 
Man I hear you. How's that saying go,,,if wishes were fishes the lakes would be full,,, That being said do you have a hay auction nearby? Seems someone will always bid something for it. I would not want to burn it if it were mine. Does someone have a tedder you could use? spread it out and leave it lay.
No hay auctions here. Market is pretty full right now anyway. I have a tedder, but I don't know if it's worth the cost of the twine after all the rain we're going to get this week. I've thought about baling it anyway and selling it for bedding or mulch. Or just spreading it out and letting it rot over winter. But then again, the field needs burning off too. I dunno...

Mac
 
You've got it in spades.

Last weekend was the end of my hay season. Had my buyer all lined up to go, come Sunday he could only come and get one load out of the field and we were forecasted to get rain for the foreseeable future. We wound up baling about 2/3rds of the field, and managed to get all we baled under cover before the rain started. But the rest is currently on the ground, ruined. If I'd had another buyer lined up we might've saved it, but as it is it'll just get burned in a month or so. All that to say, it's one thing to bale a thousand bales, and quite another to sell them!

Mac
It's all about storage and access to buyers.

As much as I worry about the maintenance of our bank barn... it will store 3x to 4x of what our current herd size needs. Right now, we have about 2x on hand. It's a nice feeling to be able to sit back and feel out the situation from this year to next, knowing that we could essentially park the haying equipment all of next year too...

Hay is a funny thing. When you're selling it, it's not worth much... but when you're buying it, it's gold.
Man I hear you. How's that saying go,,,if wishes were fishes the lakes would be full,,, That being said do you have a hay auction nearby? Seems someone will always bid something for it. I would not want to burn it if it were mine. Does someone have a tedder you could use? spread it out and leave it lay.
My favorite saying about this is...

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, oh what a party we'd have...
 
It's all about storage and access to buyers.

As much as I worry about the maintenance of our bank barn... it will store 3x to 4x of what our current herd size needs. Right now, we have about 2x on hand. It's a nice feeling to be able to sit back and feel out the situation from this year to next, knowing that we could essentially park the haying equipment all of next year too...

Hay is a funny thing. When you're selling it, it's not worth much... but when you're buying it, it's gold.

My favorite saying about this is...

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, oh what a party we'd have...
Or how about this one. Right after you sell it for next to nothing the guy says,,, well i would have given you twice that much for it.
 
Which assumes that you COULD sell the hay.

If everybody got rid of their cows and horses... to sell hay... who would they sell hay to?

(That last line should be sung to the "How much wood could a woodchuck chuck...")

But seriously, it's been a perfect summer for making hay in our area. Everybody that I know has made record numbers of small squares AND round bales to sell... even as many people have sold off their herds...

We have more than enough hay for our own animals, and... I heeded our daughter's advice to park the baling equipment... since making hay specifically to sell would be pushing hay into a local hay glut.

It's going to be an interesting year to watch the hay market on FB marketplace.

As cattle operations consolidate bigger and bigger... it moves more animals into the feedlot system... corn, soy, grain by-products and whopper-chopper-cut bunk silage... people with 3,000 animals aren't buying as many loads of small squares OR round bales (on a per animal basis), as both are more expensive per calorie than their more industrially-produced feed options.

It’s a little different here, in the spring we had a lot of rain and hay was past ripe before we could get it baled, my yields were down about 10%
Since July we’ve had less than 1” of rain until yesterday and last night when we got 8 tenths of an inch
I have enough hay for my cows but have two neighbors that need 100+ rolls in addition to what they have
I’ve already clipped the tops out back in August, with a little more rain I should get a fair cutting in mid October if we get a little more moisture between now and then
 
It’s a little different here, in the spring we had a lot of rain and hay was past ripe before we could get it baled, my yields were down about 10%
Since July we’ve had less than 1” of rain until yesterday and last night when we got 8 tenths of an inch
I have enough hay for my cows but have two neighbors that need 100+ rolls in addition to what they have
I’ve already clipped the tops out back in August, with a little more rain I should get a fair cutting in mid October if we get a little more moisture between now and then
That's been my anecdotal experience since childhood. If we look at the entire country, the amount of rainfall is fairly consistent over the years. When we have a wet summer in NY, there is often a dry summer south of us...and vice versa.

Ourselves, on our little farm, we don't sell, or buy in tractor trailer loads... but those are the people that usually even out the distribution of hay across larger areas.

I imagine there will be quite a few tractor trailer-sized loads of hay being "exported" out of CNY this year for areas to our south.

And... probably a few more fields that will have round bales left to rot in the margins or hedge rows. The cycle of these examples of "bale henge" are almost as predictable as predator-prey cycles. It's hay, so... it just rots... but the netwrap or plastic wrap will remain, if nobody uses the hay.
 
It’s a little different here, in the spring we had a lot of rain and hay was past ripe before we could get it baled, my yields were down about 10%
Since July we’ve had less than 1” of rain until yesterday and last night when we got 8 tenths of an inch
I have enough hay for my cows but have two neighbors that need 100+ rolls in addition to what they have
I’ve already clipped the tops out back in August, with a little more rain I should get a fair cutting in mid October if we get a little more moisture between now and then
Prime example was 1986... summer before my senior year of H.S.

We had a wet summer, here in NYS... it was hard to get everything baled between the rain storms... and dad's farm lost probably 2,000 small squares to the chopper (my brother would chop really badly rained-on windrows on the ground)... but even so... by September... every barn, outbuilding and outhouse on the farm was loaded with more hay than we had ever baled.

And... the Southeast had a terrible drought.

There was a guy hauling watermelons to Montreal that somehow, in the pre-internet age... hooked up with dad, and he was back-hauling about 650-700 small squares to Virginia from our place, whenever he went to Montreal.

There was even a state-wide hay donation program... the town of Westmoreland donated dumptrucks, and the local prison donated work crews... dad participated in that too... I spent a couple of Saturday mornings before football games helping prisoners load dumptrucks... which were taken into Utica, where more prisoners unloaded the hay onto trains, that Amtrak (Conrail?) had donated, bound for the Southeast.

I will still blame my subpar football performances from my Senior year on being tired... lol
 
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Our NH276 baler went down a couple of weeks ago, with just a little bit of 2nd cut and bedding to go.

Fortunately, a good friend of ours was still sitting on a NH269 in a shed. We had baled with his baler way back 15 years ago, before getting our own equipment. It was good fortune that his baler, after sitting shedded for three years, made good bales with just a little bit of grease and adjustment. So now we're about done for the year.

But... this has me thinking about our future of idiot square making.

The 269 didn't have a thrower. I had an old 36" chute that came with our 276. (We have since put a model 58 thrower on it)

We mounted the chute on the 269 and quickly built an extender out of 2x6 lumber and plywood (screwed n glued... works nice). With the extender, the chute reaches our kicker wagons, so we can bale "old school" with a rider on the wagon pulling bales and stacking with a hay hook.

We also have two flatbed wagons available to us... which... we can now use with the chute. So... chute baling means being able to load four wagons.

I forgot how nice and square bales are when they aren't mangled by a thrower. And, we can make nice, long, bales that lock in nicely in the hay loft.

And... when I'm the rider/stacker... I can do things like... I noticed that my twine splice knot didn't pull through... I called to our son-in-law (the driver) to stop for a second... I restrung the baler needle... but not before I cut three long pieces of twine... I told him to start baling again... I walked along.... and then he clutched and paused three times as the next three bales got on the chute; where I did "the haybuyer's tie" on them to fix the bales. With a thrower... all three of those bales end up in the wagon... you have to climb up there... dig all the loose hay out... throw it off... jump down... straighten it out on the ground.... then circle the whole tractor/baler/wagon shebang around to clean it up...

Also, unloading a stacked wagon is easier than trying to unjumble the bales randomly kicked in by the thrower.

And... we have probably spent 5 to 10 hours of mechanical time on the thrower over the past couple of summers... bearings... welding cracks in 50 year old thrower frames...

And... we are using wooden kicker racks; which, after about six years of baling... are starting to crack and rack and sway... You pay for all of the lumber to make those wooden kicker racks... only to burn it for firewood about 6 - 10 years hence... or... you spend a few grand on steel, welding and paint to make steel racks that last...

I probably won't get an answer here. But I just think it's worth thinking about... there is probably a certain number of small squares per year that "may" be more efficiently done with flatbed wagons, a chute and a rider than with throwers and kicker racks


I got into it again last winter with some guy buying "horse hay". He bought from us once in the while and last winter he called me up in a panic about needing hay. He knew we had a fairly large barn and sold a load or so a week. This is good brome hay with no weeds and put up without being over dried or moldy. I told him the hay belonged to my son and he needed to talk to him - he says "Yeah I talked to him he wants $10 a bale, I figured you'd be the reasonable one". So I told him $11 a bale and $12 if I had to help load it. He started in about how we were screwing people over and I told him to go buy abut 40 acres at $6000 an acre, buy a $10,000 tractor and a $5000 baler, and a $1000 mower, buy the fertilizer then take your vacation days from work to put it up so it doesn't get rained on, then build a $10,000 shed to put it in and he too could get in on this cheap hay.


Those are the guys that you tell them cash or the truck doesn't leave with any bales.
 

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