Struggling to start 2N after sitting years

[jjj_85]

I recently acquired a 1945 2N tractor with a 49 8N engine. The engine was stuck when I got it home but I was able to oil the cylinders with ATF overnight and it popped free dragging it on the trailer with the winch. After sitting a few more days I was getting 110 110 80 and 110 compression wet. I believe there is a bit of a ring ridge on number 3 but the more I crank it the better it gets. There is little to no gallop when cranking now. Dry they are around 90 psi. Was hoping they'd all come around after some heat cycles but I cannot seem to get it running. The old battery was dated 2012 but I have no idea if the last owner had it running. I have removed the distributor and replaced the points, condenser, cap, and rotor. I replaced the wires and verified the 1243 firing order. Not the tractor has what I believe is a strong spark. I replaced the carb and it currently has a 1 gallon temp fuel system. The air cleaner is not connected to the carb since the boots turned to dust. The distributor will actually seat both ways and I believe at some point someone had it in backwards. I installed it aimed at the number 1 wire with number 1 cylinder at the top of compression stroke. I even set the timing with a DVOM when I had the distributor off. I disconnected the exhaust at the manifold incase the muffler was plugged. At this point I believe I have decent compression, spark, and fuel. I disconnected the oil line from the gauge and verified it is moving a decent amount of oil. Coolant was drained but all other fluids are full and look fine. It will occasionally backfire from the carb and it smokes a little from the exhaust but it wont even try to fire. I'd love to put some money into this thing and bring it back to working condition but I really want to hear it run first. I am at a loss here. Never ran into something I couldn't figure out like this and was hoping someone might have some input here.

 

[old]

I recently acquired a 1945 2N tractor with a 49 8N engine. The engine was stuck when I got it home but I was able to oil the cylinders with ATF overnight and it popped free dragging it on the trailer with the winch. After sitting a few more days I was getting 110 110 80 and 110 compression wet. I believe there is a bit of a ring ridge on number 3 but the more I crank it the better it gets. There is little to no gallop when cranking now. Dry they are around 90 psi. Was hoping they'd all come around after some heat cycles but I cannot seem to get it running. The old battery was dated 2012 but I have no idea if the last owner had it running. I have removed the distributor and replaced the points, condenser, cap, and rotor. I replaced the wires and verified the 1243 firing order. Not the tractor has what I believe is a strong spark. I replaced the carb and it currently has a 1 gallon temp fuel system. The air cleaner is not connected to the carb since the boots turned to dust. The distributor will actually seat both ways and I believe at some point someone had it in backwards. I installed it aimed at the number 1 wire with number 1 cylinder at the top of compression stroke. I even set the timing with a DVOM when I had the distributor off. I disconnected the exhaust at the manifold incase the muffler was plugged. At this point I believe I have decent compression, spark, and fuel. I disconnected the oil line from the gauge and verified it is moving a decent amount of oil. Coolant was drained but all other fluids are full and look fine. It will occasionally backfire from the carb and it smokes a little from the exhaust but it wont even try to fire. I'd love to put some money into this thing and bring it back to working condition but I really want to hear it run first. I am at a loss here. Never ran into something I couldn't figure out like this and was hoping someone might have some input here.

Hold your hand over the carb intake and try to start it. You should both feel a good suction and get gas on your hand and it may even try to fire doing so

 

[wore out]

Hold your hand over the carb intake and try to start it. You should both feel a good suction and get gas on your hand and it may even try to fire doing so

Probably a good idea to wear a welder's leather glove or similar, if it DOES belch some gas then backfire having flaming gas on your hand is no fun. Been there, done that.

 

[jjj_85]

I did try that and it will suck my hand tight to the carb. In my haste I didn't bother wearing a glove and it definitely back fired and blasted fuel out. I even tried to prime it with a bit of fuel in the cylinders. I have never had an engine not fire when doing all these steps, unless someone completely botched the mechanical timing internally but this is gear driven. The intake and exhaust seem to be actuating at the correct time and all the valves seem to move the same distance with the naked eye and a good light with the plugs removed. I wish I had more history but I was told the gentleman's uncle passed away and they just wanted the tractor gone at this point and no one had any history other than they were told it was split and the clutch was replaced and the rear brakes were replaced before he passed. I have to be overlooking something glaringly obvious. The front tires are shot or I'd have someone drag me around any try to pull start it but it seems to be cranking at a pretty decent speed.

 

[old]

I did try that and it will suck my hand tight to the carb. In my haste I didn't bother wearing a glove and it definitely back fired and blasted fuel out. I even tried to prime it with a bit of fuel in the cylinders. I have never had an engine not fire when doing all these steps, unless someone completely botched the mechanical timing internally but this is gear driven. The intake and exhaust seem to be actuating at the correct time and all the valves seem to move the same distance with the naked eye and a good light with the plugs removed. I wish I had more history but I was told the gentleman's uncle passed away and they just wanted the tractor gone at this point and no one had any history other than they were told it was split and the clutch was replaced and the rear brakes were replaced before he passed. I have to be overlooking something glaringly obvious. The front tires are shot or I'd have someone drag me around any try to pull start it but it seems to be cranking at a pretty decent speed.

Sounds like you have a broken distributor since the off set tang should only fit one way so good chance it is way out of time and the firing order is also way out of order and likely to never be able to be right with out a distributor replacement

 

[jjj_85]

The shaft play was questionable as well. The new distributor is in the mail and should arrive tomorrow then. I am so close to just going all in on this thing. If it would fire and run for 10 seconds I would feel so much better. Then I will commit to it. It's also missing the starter switch under the generator cutout so I am getting tired of jumping the starter to the battery but I got the mechanism freed up for the button. I will update after the distributor.

 

[Jim in LA]

I recently acquired a 1945 2N tractor with a 49 8N engine. The engine was stuck when I got it home but I was able to oil the cylinders with ATF overnight and it popped free dragging it on the trailer with the winch. After sitting a few more days I was getting 110 110 80 and 110 compression wet. I believe there is a bit of a ring ridge on number 3 but the more I crank it the better it gets. There is little to no gallop when cranking now. Dry they are around 90 psi. Was hoping they'd all come around after some heat cycles but I cannot seem to get it running. The old battery was dated 2012 but I have no idea if the last owner had it running. I have removed the distributor and replaced the points, condenser, cap, and rotor. I replaced the wires and verified the 1243 firing order. Not the tractor has what I believe is a strong spark. I replaced the carb and it currently has a 1 gallon temp fuel system. The air cleaner is not connected to the carb since the boots turned to dust. The distributor will actually seat both ways and I believe at some point someone had it in backwards. I installed it aimed at the number 1 wire with number 1 cylinder at the top of compression stroke. I even set the timing with a DVOM when I had the distributor off. I disconnected the exhaust at the manifold incase the muffler was plugged. At this point I believe I have decent compression, spark, and fuel. I disconnected the oil line from the gauge and verified it is moving a decent amount of oil. Coolant was drained but all other fluids are full and look fine. It will occasionally backfire from the carb and it smokes a little from the exhaust but it wont even try to fire. I'd love to put some money into this thing and bring it back to working condition but I really want to hear it run first. I am at a loss here. Never ran into something I couldn't figure out like this and was hoping someone might have some input here.

If the distributor will seat both ways, that is not good. The tangs are offset, not sitting in the center of the shaft. I had to replace the camshaft in my 8N because at some time the distributor was installed wrong and wallowed out the slots in the end of the camshaft.

 

[jjj_85]

If the distributor will seat both ways, that is not good. The tangs are offset, not sitting in the center of the shaft. I had to replace the camshaft in my 8N because at some time the distributor was installed wrong and wallowed out the slots in the end of the camshaft.

If that's a road I have to go down I am ok with it but surely I can get it just to fire before that. I do have the hood off so I can see if I can inspect it and get some good pictures of the cam. Heck I am even ok with doing an overhaul but I want to know the gears and hydraulics work.

 

[old]

If that's a road I have to go down I am ok with it but surely I can get it just to fire before that. I do have the hood off so I can see if I can inspect it and get some good pictures of the cam. Heck I am even ok with doing an overhaul but I want to know the gears and hydraulics work.

Fire maybe but not likely to run and if you have gas dripping out of the carb good chance if it fires at the wrong time the whole tractor could go up in flames due to it never being at the correct firing order

 

[Bruce(OR)]

Glaringly obvious is to those who have done what you have done before.
Hand over the carby flooded the plugs, take them out and dry them out.
I have a propane torch to burn off the excess gas when I am lazy

 

[jjj_85]

Glaringly obvious is to those who have done what you have done before.
Hand over the carby flooded the plugs, take them out and dry them out.
I have a propane torch to burn off the excess gas when I am lazy

I actually managed to crack one of the plugs one of the many times I pulled them out to clean them off so I ordered 2 more sets so I can be extra lazy.

 

[Jim L WA]

In your original post, you said, Not the tractor has what I believe is a strong spark. Is that a typo or what? Does it have a strong spark?

 

[jjj_85]

In your original post, you said, Not the tractor has what I believe is a strong spark. Is that a typo or what? Does it have a strong spark?

I think it is. I have no way of measuring it but I have laid all the plugs against the head and it looks white or blue. It also got me one time when messing with the spark tester as well and it definately didn't feel weak to my body. So I believe it is a strong spark.

 

[old]

I think it is. I have no way of measuring it but I have laid all the plugs against the head and it looks white or blue. It also got me one time when messing with the spark tester as well and it definately didn't feel weak to my body. So I believe it is a strong spark.

Take an old spark plug and open it up to as close to a 1/4 inch as you can and use that to test spark.

 

[jjj_85]

Take an old spark plug and open it up to as close to a 1/4 inch as you can and use that to test spark.

This was a good idea since my spark tester is just a blinky light. I did this and the spark would jump that gap with no issue. I installed the new distributor after checking spark again. The new one will only seat 1 direction. The old one is complete garbage. I rechecked the compression one last time. 100, 95, 90, and 95. Put my junk plugs back in because it's all I had thanks to a delay, and jumped the starter. It back fired a few times, but never belched flames out the carb and was smoking out the exhaust. I pulled the choke and it came to life. Filled the coolant and let it idle. Thermostat functioned fine and coolant circulates. It smoked pretty badly at first but once it burnt off everything I've dumped in it the past few weeks it settled down nicely. Clearly it was my worn distributor but I can't for the life of me see why the thing didn't even try. I have started some complete junk over the years and am a diesel tech by trade, but for some reason I almost threw in the towel with this one. Thank you everyone for the suggestions and answers. You all helped me pull this one out of the grave. Guess I am better at tuning the race cars with a laptop. Makes me question my base skill set after all this.

 

[old]

This was a good idea since my spark tester is just a blinky light. I did this and the spark would jump that gap with no issue. I installed the new distributor after checking spark again. The new one will only seat 1 direction. The old one is complete garbage. I rechecked the compression one last time. 100, 95, 90, and 95. Put my junk plugs back in because it's all I had thanks to a delay, and jumped the starter. It back fired a few times, but never belched flames out the carb and was smoking out the exhaust. I pulled the choke and it came to life. Filled the coolant and let it idle. Thermostat functioned fine and coolant circulates. It smoked pretty badly at first but once it burnt off everything I've dumped in it the past few weeks it settled down nicely. Clearly it was my worn distributor but I can't for the life of me see why the thing didn't even try. I have started some complete junk over the years and am a diesel tech by trade, but for some reason I almost threw in the towel with this one. Thank you everyone for the suggestions and answers. You all helped me pull this one out of the grave. Guess I am better at tuning the race cars with a laptop. Makes me question my base skill set after all this.

The old distributor was very likely to be way out of time so would not fire like it should and out of time means it will never run

 

[jjj_85]

The old distributor was very likely to be way out of time so would not fire like it should and out of time means it will never run

No question it was it was out of time. About 90 degrees it seemed. The only explanation I can come with is that the alignment tab on the distributor is so badly worn, and with the bushings completely shot, maybe the distributor isn't staying aligned to the cam. I set the timing per the manual on the distributor and I did check that the points cam was not spinning on the shaft. I've had that happen on another engine but that was obvious. I am just glad it runs, it runs well actually. Now I will start ordering parts to bring it around.

 

[old]

No question it was it was out of time. About 90 degrees it seemed. The only explanation I can come with is that the alignment tab on the distributor is so badly worn, and with the bushings completely shot, maybe the distributor isn't staying aligned to the cam. I set the timing per the manual on the distributor and I did check that the points cam was not spinning on the shaft. I've had that happen on another engine but that was obvious. I am just glad it runs, it runs well actually. Now I will start ordering parts to bring it around.

If the shaft bushings are real bad that can cause the point to either not open or open off and on as it want them to open so yes no firing up and running

 

[Jim in LA]

This was a good idea since my spark tester is just a blinky light. I did this and the spark would jump that gap with no issue. I installed the new distributor after checking spark again. The new one will only seat 1 direction. The old one is complete garbage. I rechecked the compression one last time. 100, 95, 90, and 95. Put my junk plugs back in because it's all I had thanks to a delay, and jumped the starter. It back fired a few times, but never belched flames out the carb and was smoking out the exhaust. I pulled the choke and it came to life. Filled the coolant and let it idle. Thermostat functioned fine and coolant circulates. It smoked pretty badly at first but once it burnt off everything I've dumped in it the past few weeks it settled down nicely. Clearly it was my worn distributor but I can't for the life of me see why the thing didn't even try. I have started some complete junk over the years and am a diesel tech by trade, but for some reason I almost threw in the towel with this one. Thank you everyone for the suggestions and answers. You all helped me pull this one out of the grave. Guess I am better at tuning the race cars with a laptop. Makes me question my base skill set after all this.

Congratulations on getting it running. I am in the process of overhauling my 51 8N now.

 

[Jim L WA]

Ditto what Jim in LA said. Thanks for the update.