Super C no power problem

[Rick Remmert]

I don't mean to bore anyone, but I have a problem I have never seen before. It all started with a water pump replacement. That got done and I took it for a drive around the hood. No water leaks, but I did find a very small oil leak out of the back right side of the head. So I pulled the head off and ordered a valve grind gasket set. While it was off, I cleaned everything up and checked the head and block to be sure they were not warped. Good to go. Put all back together and drove it some more. Did an oil and filter change. No water in the oil and the water level was fine in the radiator. Took it to a tractor pull on Labor Day. Pulled fine in 4,000 bracket, but in the 4,500 bracket, it ran out of power and just died. Barely got it to run long enough to get it on the trailer. Took it home went thru it and checked everything. New cap, rotor and coil. Plugs and wires all checked okay. Ran a compression check and had 155 psi in all 4 cylinders. Took it out to the Scout lands to mow with the sickle mower. Ran just fine for about 2 hours and just started losing power. Barely got it back on the trailer. Now comes the big question. 2 times in a row that I have taken the hood off, there has been a lot of oil on top of the air breather canister. It is blowing oil up into the intake pipe that goes up through the hood. I need to see what your take is on this. I think there is a crack in the intake/exhaust manifold. The engine is under a good load and warmed up for it to open up. Anyway, I am desperate for help. Thanks for your help.

 

[used red MN]

How could you “bore” someone by asking a question about a tractor problem on a tractor forum? I would feel the coil when you have the problem if it is real hot that may be your problem. Is it still a 6 volt or converted to 12? Second thing to check is it sounds like you may be facing the classic “bug or other debris” on the gas tank double check that. Check the rest of the fuel system especially the strainer screen in the carb inlet if it has one. My guess is when you are having this issue the tractor back fired out of the carb and pushed oil up the tube from the oil bath cup. How do you propose that the crack between the manifolds is pushing that oil up there? I doubt the proposal of a crack that supposedly opens up when the engine is extra hot to blow exhaust out the carb, if this is your train of thought.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

There used to be a guy who ran a regular "what's for supper " thread. Now THAT was a bore job.

My M would occasionally run backwards briefly at shut-down which would blow the oil out of the air cleaner. But the oil would also be all over the hood , not just on top of the air cleaner housing.

The crankcase breather is in that vicinity, are you sure it's not coming from that, and the fan blowing it back there?

 

[Rick Remmert]

Yes, the coil was running very hot. (12v) It also tested badly. I have already replaced it with a new one that tested good before I put it on. I also had the carb apart to check the float level and blow all the crap out of it. I found nothing and no it doesn't have a strainer on it. There is a screen in the sediment bowl on the bottom of the gas tank. I will have an American-made cap and rotor on Monday to try on it. The one on it now was made in Taiwan. I do need to go back and see if the timing is where it is supposed to be. I have been messing with this for 3 weeks now. The crack in the manifold was a thought. That is why I posted it here. I wanted to get a second opinion. I am getting to the end of my rope here, but I am going to figure it out if it takes me all winter. Thanks.

 

[Rick Remmert]

There used to be a guy who ran a regular "what's for supper " thread. Now THAT was a bore job.

My M would occasionally run backwards briefly at shut-down which would blow the oil out of the air cleaner. But the oil would also be all over the hood , not just on top of the air cleaner housing.

The crankcase breather is in that vicinity, are you sure it's not coming from that, and the fan blowing it back there?

On the Super C's, the breather sits on top of the valve cover and comes out the hood on the other side of the air intake. The air intake pipe is about a foot or more above the hood. The oil is coming out of the bottom of the sleeve that slides on the top of the oil bath canister.

 

[Lawmar]

Yes, the coil was running very hot. (12v) It also tested badly. I have already replaced it with a new one that tested good before I put it on. I also had the carb apart to check the float level and blow all the crap out of it. I found nothing and no it doesn't have a strainer on it. There is a screen in the sediment bowl on the bottom of the gas tank. I will have an American-made cap and rotor on Monday to try on it. The one on it now was made in Taiwan. I do need to go back and see if the timing is where it is supposed to be. I have been messing with this for 3 weeks now. The crack in the manifold was a thought. That is why I posted it here. I wanted to get a second opinion. I am getting to the end of my rope here, but I am going to figure it out if it takes me all winter. Thanks.

As already stated the most common cause for your symptoms is the coil. Read the fine print. Some 12 volt coils are “12 v with external resistor”. Running one of these on straight 12 will react as you described. Run for a while and then shut down.

 

[teddy52food]

A condenser can fail when it gets hot also.

 

[used red MN]

Barely got it back on the trailer.

So I went through some fuel delivery stuff in my other reply. The “screen in the sediment bowl on the bottom of the gas tank” is the round one that set in the top of the bowl? Look down in the fuel fill with a good flashlight, if you see any debris in there of any size at all that is likely accumulating in the top of the sediment bowl where the gas goes out and blocking flow. What kind of flow do you have when you disconnect the line from the carb and open the gas valve? It should be flowing out full stream the diameter of the inside of the file line. A low fuel delivery problem would have periods of okay running when the fuel in the carb replenishes. Did you experience that? Say you stop and let it idle slow or even shut it off it should run fine for at least 30 seconds or maybe more until the level of gas in the carb come back up. During this period it should run fine no misfiring or unevenness, until the fuel level drops. Not being there to see how you drive it I can’t say. If once it stumbled and you the nervous type thinking I got to keep this thing revved up or it is going to die on me there may have been no chance for the fuel level to recover. Do you have an inline fuel filter on it? I am NOT going to tell you they are the work of the devil and tell you to pull it off and throw as far from the tractor as you can as old would. I will say that these old gas tractors have done a bunch of work for 100s of 1000s of hours without one. Can you get it back out to the Scout camp and try it again? If so in this link is a way to monitor the level of fuel in the carb. Carb fuel level test If you are going to do this and take it out in the field I would use a bread bag tie or zip tie to cover the open end of the tube with a small piece of cloth. A timed fuel delivery test should do the same thing. I would have to look up the Nebraska test on that tractor to see the fuel use requirements. And FYI if you do it you have to drain off the first 5 seconds and not count that in your actual measured quantity. Unless there is really something messed up in the distributor drive gears timing should not make an engine run bad to the point of it not driving back on the trailer.

 

[Rick Remmert]

As already stated the most common cause for your symptoms is the coil. Read the fine print. Some 12 volt coils are “12 v with external resistor”. Running one of these on straight 12 will react as you described. Run for a while and then shut down.

I have run an internal resistor coil since I switched it over to 12v. I have been running that type of coil for over 10 to 12 years without any problems. I just put a new coil on it yesterday that checked okay before I put it on. I have not ran the tractor since as I am waiting on a new cap and rotor.

 

[Rick Remmert]

So I went through some fuel delivery stuff in my other reply. The “screen in the sediment bowl on the bottom of the gas tank” is the round one that set in the top of the bowl? Look down in the fuel fill with a good flashlight, if you see any debris in there of any size at all that is likely accumulating in the top of the sediment bowl where the gas goes out and blocking flow. What kind of flow do you have when you disconnect the line from the carb and open the gas valve? It should be flowing out full stream the diameter of the inside of the file line. A low fuel delivery problem would have periods of okay running when the fuel in the carb replenishes. Did you experience that? Say you stop and let it idle slow or even shut it off it should run fine for at least 30 seconds or maybe more until the level of gas in the carb come back up. During this period it should run fine no misfiring or unevenness, until the fuel level drops. Not being there to see how you drive it I can’t say. If once it stumbled and you the nervous type thinking I got to keep this thing revved up or it is going to die on me there may have been no chance for the fuel level to recover. Do you have an inline fuel filter on it? I am NOT going to tell you they are the work of the devil and tell you to pull it off and throw as far from the tractor as you can as old would. I will say that these old gas tractors have done a bunch of work for 100s of 1000s of hours without one. Can you get it back out to the Scout camp and try it again? If so in this link is a way to monitor the level of fuel in the carb. Carb fuel level test If you are going to do this and take it out in the field I would use a bread bag tie or zip tie to cover the open end of the tube with a small piece of cloth. A timed fuel delivery test should do the same thing. I would have to look up the Nebraska test on that tractor to see the fuel use requirements. And FYI if you do it you have to drain off the first 5 seconds and not count that in your actual measured quantity. Unless there is really something messed up in the distributor drive gears timing should not make an engine run bad to the point of it not driving back on the trailer.

I just got through draining 5 gallons out of the tank. It is running a full stream. It filled the container fast. I have never ran a filter in the line after reading all the post on here about doing that over the years.

 

[used red MN]

I just got through draining 5 gallons out of the tank. It is running a full stream. It filled the container fast. I have never ran a filter in the line after reading all the post on here about doing that over the years.

Is that all the gas in the tank? Did you look for crud in the tank with a light? One particle with near the same buoyancy as water can float down and plug the hole. Then when shut off floats back away. Also a Taiwan built cap a rotor will not all of a sudden start running bad, I realize that is probably the principle of the matter.
I don’t see where you say you changed the condenser so I will get on Teddy’s bandwagon. Can you take it out to test it again under load or is the distance prohibitive?

 

[Janicholson]

I have run an internal resistor coil since I switched it over to 12v. I have been running that type of coil for over 10 to 12 years without any problems. I just put a new coil on it yesterday that checked okay before I put it on. I have not ran the tractor since as I am waiting on a new cap and rotor.

Modern 12v no resistor needed coils do not have a resistor inside. (even if the coil says it does. it is just designed to operate at charging voltage of 14+ volts (like a 120 lightbulb on 120) (common error caused by wording of no external resistor required! The number of windings and size of wires is for 14+ volts. Jim