Super H trans

[tomturkey]

You all helped me a year ago, need additional help. Old story, transmission would not stay in 5th gear without a bungee on the shifter. Several people offered up help and guidance. I ended up splitting tractor and replacing the 4th/5th sliding gear, inside of old slider pretty well worn out from pulling into gear while moving (I suspect). The gear that 4/5 meshes with to make 5th appeared worn but I hoped that since the 4/5 slider was so worn that it would be ok. Not so. Tractor ride last June, shifter will not stay in 5th. Keeps sliding out of 5th. A bungee will hold it in gear no problems. I am delving into this tractor again. I am going to look hard at the shift rail as it seems very easy to move the shifter up out of 5th gear, and of course the meshing gear to achieve road gear. Can any one give me a part number for that gear? I must confess since this tractor belongs to someone else, I never bought a manual. May need to yet. Any and all help is appreciated. thanks in advance gobble

 

[used red MN]

Basically the transmission input shaft pn 358024R1. Part 40 in this link if it takes you the right place.
Messicks Farmall Super H trans parts
Edit to add: I see that PN is not to readily available. I am not sure if the regular H part PN 52945D will also work, it shows the same teeth number. Someone else will have to confirm that they will work. They are available as an aftermarket part. The ones I see are between $150 - $200.
YT shows that parts, see link scroll to bottom.
YT Farmall H trans parts

 

[tomturkey]

Basically the transmission input shaft pn 358024R1. Part 40 in this link if it takes you the right place.
Messicks Farmall Super H trans parts

Thank you for the link. I had went to the Messicks but could not navigate the parts look-up procedure. Looking over the diagram, makes me wonder if possibly my shifting fork that controls the 4/5 slider could be deformed so it infact does not move the 4/5 gear as far forward as it should. I do not see any detent balls in that diagram. thanks for you help, I do appreciate it.

 

[tomturkey]

I was able to find gear 358024R1U ?? at the messicks site, those little nubby gears that engage the 4/5 slider for road gear look very much, if not worse that the ones I am looking at in the Super H i am working on. I'll be removing the top of the transmission to look over the shifting rails and detent balls and springs. Can't imagine anything being worn out. it is only 70 years old or so. lol gobble

 

[Janicholson]

The 5th gear detent is only about 50% of the engagement depth of the other gears. (lever moves much less). The input gear could be the same, but the bearing housing is not at all the same. I will look up the part numbers in a few minutes. Jim

 

[Janicholson]

Ebay part (not mine)
messicks catalog
The gear part numbers match from H to SH 358024 R1 The gear has 18 splines for 5th, and 35 teeth for the constant mesh to the countershaft. (from Messicks parts catalog. https://www.messicks.com/catalogs/c...-ball-bearing-five-speeds-forward-one-reverse). Jim

 

[D Slater]

Ebay part (not mine)
messicks catalog
The gear part numbers match from H to SH 358024 R1 The gear has 18 splines for 5th, and 35 teeth for the constant mesh to the countershaft. (from Messicks parts catalog. https://www.messicks.com/catalogs/c...-ball-bearing-five-speeds-forward-one-reverse). Jim

Just a heads up, 358024R1 is for a real late H or SH, think at same time they put in 11 inch clutch and disc brakes. Never had both type transmissions apart to compare at the same time. Notice some difference though. Input shaft bearing housing is different, yoke on front of input shaft a little different. Spacer between bearings different and different bearing used on front of main shaft. 18 teeth to constant shaft gear and 35 for belt pulley drive. Always felt I could work a pre late model H shaft in a SH if needed by using a matching pilot bearing and adjusting the input shaft spacer as needed and making adjustment to yoke if needed. Never needed to try though. From what I remember the input shafts are the same diameter for bearing ID. Gear teeth are the same for both. Posting because nobody at one time was making the 358024R1 gear. Maybe they are now.

 

[Jim Becker]

Looking over the diagram, makes me wonder if possibly my shifting fork that controls the 4/5 slider could be deformed so it infact does not move the 4/5 gear as far forward as it should.

If it has been run much with a bungee holding it in gear, it is quite likely that a worn shifter fork is part of your problem now.

 

[RedMVa]

One thing that’s overlooked imo are the shift rails, detent balls and springs. Have seen quite a few that were getting wore out and caused gear problems.

 

[Janicholson]

Just a heads up, 358024R1 is for a real late H or SH, think at same time they put in 11 inch clutch and disc brakes. Never had both type transmissions apart to compare at the same time. Notice some difference though. Input shaft bearing housing is different, yoke on front of input shaft a little different. Spacer between bearings different and different bearing used on front of main shaft. 18 teeth to constant shaft gear and 35 for belt pulley drive. Always felt I could work a pre late model H shaft in a SH if needed by using a matching pilot bearing and adjusting the input shaft spacer as needed and making adjustment to yoke if needed. Never needed to try though. From what I remember the input shafts are the same diameter for bearing ID. Gear teeth are the same for both. Posting because nobody at one time was making the 358024R1 gear. Maybe they are now.

There is a part number change at a H serial number on the shaft. Given Part Number is for late H and all SH (to my research) Jim

 

[used red MN]

I was able to find gear 358024R1U ?? at the messicks site, those little nubby gears that engage the 4/5 slider for road gear look very much, if not worse that the ones I am looking at in the Super H i am working on. I'll be removing the top of the transmission to look over the shifting rails and detent balls and springs. Can't imagine anything being worn out. it is only 70 years old or so. lol gobble

I am not sure what the gear you looked at looks like, was it used? Here is a photo of a 52945D an aftermarket part available on Amazon. These would fit a regular H and I am just using it as an example photo. The photo has red lines along the gear teeth. The flatness or lack of wear on the areas of the sides of the teeth where the redlines are is what determines if the gear is likely to work itself out of engagement or hold in. What happens to the side of the teeth is they get a “step” worn in them about where the blue arrow is and the edge of the tooth starts wearing at an angle between the blue arrow and the end or back of the tooth as it sets in the tractor. That angling or sloping of the side of the tooth is what makes it work out of engagement. The rounding from grinding unless it is extremely severe like a 1/8” ground off has very little to do with how well it holds in gear.

 

[tomturkey]

Hey guys its been near or below zero here the last few days, while I do have heat in the shop, when it is this cold it is like pouring money down the drain to heat to a workable temp. So I will report back in a few days. It is suppose to warm up to the 40's and50's end of the week and next so this project is on hold. Thanks to all. I would put a NEW input shaft and gears in if I can find one that will indeed replace what I have. I am going to still flip the cover and examine the shift rails and detent balls and springs. I do appreciate your help. Stay tuned. gobble

 

[Janicholson]

Hey guys its been near or below zero here the last few days, while I do have heat in the shop, when it is this cold it is like pouring money down the drain to heat to a workable temp. So I will report back in a few days. It is suppose to warm up to the 40's and50's end of the week and next so this project is on hold. Thanks to all. I would put a NEW input shaft and gears in if I can find one that will indeed replace what I have. I am going to still flip the cover and examine the shift rails and detent balls and springs. I do appreciate your help. Stay tuned. gobble

I found one on Ebay, not mine but correct. See link above. Jim

 

[tomturkey]

I found one on Ebay, not mine but correct. See link above. Jim

I looked that part over and thought it looked no better than what I have. That's why I commented that if I can find new for a reasonable price I will go that way. Not going to take a chance on a used, worn, gear possibly no better than what I have. thank you very much for your help. gobble

 

[Janicholson]

I looked that part over and thought it looked no better than what I have. That's why I commented that if I can find new for a reasonable price I will go that way. Not going to take a chance on a used, worn, gear possibly no better than what I have. thank you very much for your help. gobble

The primary spline issue is whether the spline is tapered from the nubby end back a ways on the shape. taper (any) will cause jumping out. The intermediate roller bearing in that location, and the condition of the from]nt main bearing also contribute to staying in 5th. Jim

 

[tomturkey]

The primary spline issue is whether the spline is tapered from the nubby end back a ways on the shape. taper (any) will cause jumping out. The intermediate roller bearing in that location, and the condition of the from]nt main bearing also contribute to staying in 5th. Jim

I read a post from 2024 that a worn bearing could/would contribute or cause the problem. So I will remove the input shaft and gears to evaluate the bearing. I must of thought it ok a year ago when I split the tractor to replace 4/5 slider. But may have missed or misjudged the situation. thanks gobble

 

[tomturkey]

Ok Guys, it has moved from arctic weather to spring time and work in the shop is now possible. I took the top of of the transmission. As I moved the shifter around to different positions I could see the detent balls snap into the positions on the shift rails, that is all but one, when shifting to 5th gear position the detent does not snap down into the groove as it should. It appears the spring is not pushing the ball down, the ball moves around but will not snap into the shift rail. I am still evaluating the bearing on the input shaft, considering it could be a contributing factor. I can order the spring from Messicks, should I order a new ball also?? I was kinda thinking the balls were chrome so very very hard and would not wear, but I don't know. Any advice on getting the shift rails moved to get the new spring in?? thanks guys takes alot of typing to say very much. lol gobble

 

[Janicholson]

The shift fork and detent are designed to move and position the sliding gears, they should not need to hold the gears in place. If they are required to do that, they will wear. But they do need to be operational. the ball (if still round after cleaning and a bit of polish should be OK. if worn then it needs new. Any ball bearing of that size will do fine. Stainless is not used in balls because it is usually softer than carbon steel or alloy steel. I think the rails can be slid out along their length from the loops holding them in place. Do look to those bearings. Jim

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Can have too much end play with the gears. They must be tightly stacked (.005) when assembled. If that forward gear/shaft too far away, the coupling will not engage all the way.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Can have too much end play with the gears. They must be tightly stacked (.005) when assembled. If that forward gear/shaft too far away, the coupling will not engage all the way.

It already doesn't have much throw as Jim stated, plus years of grinding into fifth , you lose that much more.